Bibi won!

[Proteus_MST]

The Russians committed ethnic cleansing when they kicked the Germans out of Konigsberg, but nobody's asking them to give Kaliningrad back.

Who would have asked them?
Germany? Who was not only the loser of WW 2 and at the mercy of the allied powers, but also guilt ridden by the atrocities the germany themselves commited during WW2?
Unlikely.

Especially as later the cold war followed, with the SU being the big player on the other side and afterwards (i.e. during perestroika and german reunification) the Kaliningrad Oblast most likely would have become a financial burden instead of an asset (due to incompetitive outdated soviet industries and the fact that the possession of Königsberg as Exclave would have lead to a situation similar to pre WW2, if not worse (with germany being forced to supply Königsberg via the baltic sea (as poland also was a former member of the SU ... and polish-german relations still in development shortly after the german reunification)))
That doesn´t turn the annexation of eastern prussian territory in the aftermaths of WW1 and WW2 (and the expulsion of germans from those territories) into less of an injustice however.
(Nevertheless AFAIK even after the the expulsions of germans from eastern prussian territory (by the russians and polish) there AFAIK were still much more germanys living in those territories than there are palestinians in the territories claimed by the jewish settlements)

1948 was almost 70 years ago for those of you keeping score, and the Israelis live there now. And it's hard to feel sympathetic in the first place when you consider that the Arabs would have had all that land if they accepted the borders offered by the UN at the time instead of all simultaneously trying to wipe out the Jews.

"The Arabs" usually means their leaders. The individual arab palestinian is as guilty of the wars against Israel, as the individual german is guilty of the horrors of the holocaust ... especially if you consider that most of the arabs living today were either not born or just kids during the time that the wars happened (similarly like the percentage of germans who were adults when WW2/Holocaust happened nowadays is very small and steadily declining).

Also there are 2 big differences between germany and the westbank:
The loss of eastern prussia may have been a thorn in the side of germany, but even during the time when the GDR still existed we had so much ferzile land that we neither had a problem nourishing our population, nor had any problems to rebuild our industries to a better standard than before WW2.
In contrast to this, the westbank is a small territory ... and much of the land consists of rather infertile arid regions. And the regions claimed by the israeli settlements of course, aren´t within arid regions, but rather the fertile regions which have lots of water.
So, the more fertile regions the israeli settlers claim (and israel doesn´t give back [or just gives desert territory in exchange for those regions, see Olmerts peace plan]), the less chances a palestinian state has to actually develop itself. And a poor palestinian state (with poor palestinian inhabitants) surely is more likely to succumb to religious extremism (and to bad feelings towards israel) than a palestinian state that has a chance of industrial development (and relative prosperity of its inhabitants)

[regexcellent]

Actually Israel is mostly the useless land in the Negev. The West Bank as the name suggests is along the Jordan River.

[onejayhawk]

You do realise that the 1967 6 Day War was a war of Israeli aggression, right? Israeli attacked first, and continued attacking first. That's how they were able to *****slap the Arabs so effectively. But hey, that part of history seems to have been rewritten as well these days...

A state of war existed, started by the Arab states. It still does. Cease fire agreements, such as existed, were violated.

I find it odd that you harp on continued attacks in something called The Six Days.

Do you find the Yom Kippur attacks to be Israeli aggression as well?

J

[dannubis]

Actually Israel is mostly the useless land in the Negev. The West Bank as the name suggests is along the Jordan River.

How does that give them the right to expulse palestinians from not so useless land on the West Bank?

[kentonio]

The sad thing is that the situation doesn't seem to have any solution. Israelis just want to live in peace, but decades of rocket attacks and living surrounded by mortal enemies has made them understandably paranoid to the point where they feel they can't take risks with potentially dangerous peace processes. Meanwhile the Palestinians have been treated like crap by everyone including the other Arab nations for so long that they expect every political action to end up with them being screwed over in one way or another. Both result in them electing leaders who are far too extremist, and those leaders then ensure that the situation continues indefinitely.

Either we end up with the US holding them to ransom and basically forcing a solution, or it's just going to go on for another 50 years. Very sad.

[C0ckney]

The Russians committed ethnic cleansing when they kicked the Germans out of Konigsberg, but nobody's asking them to give Kaliningrad back. 1948 was almost 70 years ago for those of you keeping score, and the Israelis live there now. And it's hard to feel sympathetic in the first place when you consider that the Arabs would have had all that land if they accepted the borders offered by the UN at the time instead of all simultaneously trying to wipe out the Jews.

so you admit that israel committed ethnic cleansing and is still doing so today. well i suppose that at least makes you more honest than onechickenhawk.

and of course you find it hard to feel sympathy. you've defended israeli war crimes on this forum and have shown yourself prepared to offer a justification for literally anything they do; but no one is asking you to feel anything or give your worthless opinions on why this or that war crime is fine because israel is its author.

[Fake Boris]

He may be rude (though you are close), but he has a valid point. Israel was not using schools and hospitals as human shields.

J

Excellent reasoning.

Israel was attacking Palestine because it knew Palestinians would use human shields if attacked!

[regexcellent]

so you admit that israel committed ethnic cleansing and is still doing so today. well i suppose that at least makes you more honest than onechickenhawk.

and of course you find it hard to feel sympathy. you've defended israeli war crimes on this forum and have shown yourself prepared to offer a justification for literally anything they do; but no one is asking you to feel anything or give your worthless opinions on why this or that war crime is fine because israel is its author.

Uh, no, what happened in 1948 could in many cases reasonably be described as ethnic cleansing, but not what has happened since. 1948 was long enough ago that getting concerned about it is ridiculous.

Also onejayhawk isn't a chickenhawk for supporting Israel. Chickenhawk means something else entirely.

[onejayhawk]

Also onejayhawk isn't a chickenhawk for supporting Israel. Chickenhawk means something else entirely.

I don't support Israel, but I don't like bullies. Posters in this forum are using Israel as a punching bag. For example:

Excellent reasoning.

Israel was attacking Palestine because it knew Palestinians would use human shields if attacked!

No. Palestine was attacking Israel. They were using civilians for cover.

Get the basics right.

J

[C0ckney]

Uh, no, what happened in 1948 could in many cases reasonably be described as ethnic cleansing, but not what has happened since. 1948 was long enough ago that getting concerned about it is ridiculous.

Also onejayhawk isn't a chickenhawk for supporting Israel. Chickenhawk means something else entirely.

it's hard to believe that you've never heard of the west bank; there have even been maps posted in this thread to bring you up to speed.

and i call him onechickenhawk because the nickname seems apt, not because of his imbecilic views on israel.

[onejayhawk]

it's hard to believe that you've never heard of the west bank; there have even been maps posted in this thread to bring you up to speed.

and i call him onechickenhawk because the nickname seems apt, not because of his imbecilic views on israel.

The West bank is a glowing success story. It takes contortions to make it seem otherwise. Consider Syria, Iran or ISIS.

Haters are going to hate. I consider the source.

J

[C0ckney]

"those palestinians are lucky to have had their land stolen by the israelis; they should count their blessings for having israeli boots on their throats"

the level of argument that israel apologists sink to is tragic.

[onejayhawk]

"those palestinians are lucky to have had their land stolen by the israelis; they should count their blessings

I would quibble with the stolen part, but the rest is accurate. Compare Lebannon.

J

[C0ckney]

as i said, your views are both imbecilic and tragic.

i doubt you know much about lebanon. you can't even spell it.

[onejayhawk]

as i said, your views are both imbecilic and tragic.

i doubt you know much about lebanon.

Your views require prejudice and hatred. I'll take mine over yours.

you can't even spell it.

Sure I can, it. You cannot spell I.

J