Who do you root for? (aSoIaF thread)

[Imran Siddiqui]

I would argue that this reflects a worldview at least as binary as Tolkien's, only nihilistic. The most cynical characters come out on top, while others suffer, usually in elaborate ways, for either being stupid or failing to recognize the brutality and meaninglessness of their world.

Well failing for being stupid or failing for not recognizing the brutality of their world along with succeeding for bring smart and cynical makes it more than binary, doesn't it (more triangular)?

Of course the smart and cynical sometimes fail in ASOIF as well (one can argue that about Sandor Clegane - though if having a simple life as a monk is "failing").

Though I am glad you found it compelling reading. I felt you might .

[Bosh]

The thing with Martin is the man can write but the Babyboomerness of his outlook gets to me at times. He still seems to be sad that the 60`s didn`t work out (which is very explicit in his older writing). Reading his stuff feels like being lectured by my dad sometmes.

[Elok]

Of course the smart and cynical sometimes fail in ASOIF as well (one can argue that about Sandor Clegane - though if having a simple life as a monk is "failing").

Well, Tywin died abruptly and kind of left-field. Red Viper might count, albeit he barely appeared before he kacked it. Who else? Littlefinger, Varys, Illyrio, Frey, Bolton Sr., et al are still apparently doing fine. I'd classified Clegane under the "psycho" heading with his brother and Vargo, though he is the best-developed of psychos. His behavior isn't properly Machiavellian like the real stinkers. Also, when did he become a monk? Was that in the show, or was it something I somehow missed while skimming over descriptions of coats of arms and irrelevant long-ago events?

[Guynemer]

It isn't outright stated as such, but it is heavily implied in the chapter where Brienne visits the monastery. The huge, novice gravedigger with a limp is Sandor Clegane.

[Elok]

Ah, I must have missed that. Should have figured off-camera deaths are always false, but I skim liberally, because there's a fairly narrow band in the middle of the venn diagram for stuff GRRM and I care about.

[Elok]

Incidentally, I'm reading Seveneves now, and it's pretty awesome so far. It's also total Lori-bait, and he left around the time it was released, and I'm not totally sure that's coincidence.

[Guynemer]

I'm 230 pages into it now.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The long-ago events, FWIW, are my favorite part. I devoured the Dunk and Egg novellas and I will soon get the Dance of the Dragons stories (there are only 2 of those so far, right?)

[Guynemer]

Incidentally, I'm reading Seveneves now, and it's pretty awesome so far. It's also total Lori-bait, and he left around the time it was released, and I'm not totally sure that's coincidence.

Just got to page 330ish and... god ****ing DAMMIT.

[Elok]

Think I know what you're referring to. It gets worse.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm reading Station Eleven and OMG!! Oh wait.. this isn't a thread where we can discuss any damn book we want?

(anyways, after S11, I'm going back to Song of Ice and Fire and re-read A Feast for Crows - I've been rereading the series since I got a great price for the set of 5, $9.99, on Kindle, which yes, I know, means I rebought them, but I wasn't going to reread them on paper anyways)

[Elok]

Seveneves is totally relevant to 'Poly because (spoilered for Guy, I'm around p. 700)

Spoiler:

After a certain point, it's basically SMAC. There's seven factions in the far future, most of them are slightly crazy, and two are recognizably Santiago and Miriam. Miriam ruins everything, of course. EDIT: but Zak doesn't have a drone penalty. The Lal character who pop-booms best is, in fact, from the Indian subcontinent. The other three don't line up so neatly.

[Guynemer]

I'm gonna assume that spoiler relates the book to SMAC, which seemed to be an obvious inspiration back when the book was published.

I'm just trying to figure out who the "Seveneves" are.

Spoiler:

Dinah, Ivy, Tekla, that stupid ****ing President whom I ****ing hate, Moira, the psychologist lady whose name escapes me, and the last one is either Bo (the Mongolian woman) or Camila.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Thanks for Ben Kenobi'ing the thread guys.

[Elok]

You're fairly close, Guy. I like how NS made his book bipartisan by making his female president resemble both Hilary and Palin. You can hate her whichever side you favor politically!