Bruce Jenner wants to called Belinda

[Proteus_MST]

Maybe his problem was exactly those things ...
he was a successful male ethlete (so kinda sterotype for masculinity), he was a celebrity (due to his sports successes) and perhaps, at the time when he discovered his urges to become a woman, he already had children.

May make a coming out (as transsexual) rather difficult (and some of it, like the sports may also delay those hidden desires from surfacing)

[Alexander's Horse]

I had the same thought too Proteus - trapped by his success as an Alpha male and national, indeed at one time international sports hero, .....but really? The publicity stunt angle grows in appeal.....

I still remember Bruce/Belinda's performances at Montreal. The Decathlete is the best all-round athlete on the track. I can remember few others over the years.

Now he is just a handbag for a bunch of talentless vamps.

[Pedotard]

I recognise that you could say "Has there been one person, ever, who was died and came back to life?" and respond by noting that I am supportive of delusional people (in general) living how they desire to. My problem is with the medical/scientific community and not the delusional transgenders.

So in other words you want to indirectly stop transexuals from making decisions about what happens to their own bodies by not allowing doctors to provide assistance to transexuals instead of directly telling transexuals not to make decisions about their own bodies.

[Jon Miller]

So in other words you want to indirectly stop transexuals from making decisions about what happens to their own bodies by not allowing doctors to provide assistance to transexuals instead of directly telling transexuals not to make decisions about their own bodies.

I explicitly said that my problem was not with the doctors who make the operations, but rather with the doctors who diagnose and advise. And that people in general, including 'delusional' people, should be able to make decisions about themselves (including cosmetic surgery).

But I am not sure I should expect you to be able to read?

JM

[Pedotard]

I explicitly said that my problem was not with the doctors who make the operations, but rather with the doctors who diagnose and advise. And that people in general, including 'delusional' people, should be able to make decisions about themselves (including cosmetic surgery).

But I am not sure I should expect you to be able to read?

JM

Wait, are you saying surgeons who perform sex change operations shouldn't require a diagnosis from a therapist?

[Jon Miller]

Do we require a diagnosis for breast implants?

JM

[Pedotard]

Do we require a diagnosis for breast implants?

JM

We do if the person who wants breast implants was born with a penis and has an XY karyotype. To answer your question more directly, breast implants are a lot easier to undo than removing someone's testicles and putting their penis inside them.

[Lorizael]

(I will note that my 'delusion' is based off a supernatural event that happened ~2000 years ago while yours (I am assuming that you agree with the standard pro-trans position) is based off the belief that science is changing sex of people in the last ~100 years which is, based on science, wrong.)

Uh, what? That is not the delusion to which I'm referring. In fact, I have never encountered a transgender person who believed surgery would cause their biological sex to literally (literally literally) change, only people who believe surgery would cause their actual physical image to more closely resemble their internal mental image.

[Hauldren Collider]

Believing in Christianity has nothing to do with and is not remotely similar to the much more proximate delusion of thinking you're a woman when you are quite clearly a man. Even to believe in something provably false like Creationism just requires disbelieving the words of scientists when they talk to you. Thinking you are a women means looking down at your cock and balls and thinking "yah I shouldn't have those". The former is just ignorance. The latter is delusion. The two could not be less similar.

I'm really hoping that was just a troll on your part lori, cause it's a pretty stupid thing to say. Ignorance is not mental illness. Delusion on the scale of transgenderism is.

[Pedotard]

Believing in Christianity has nothing to do with and is not remotely similar to the much more proximate delusion of thinking you're a woman when you are quite clearly a man. Even to believe in something provably false like Creationism just requires disbelieving the words of scientists when they talk to you. Thinking you are a women means looking down at your cock and balls and thinking "yah I shouldn't have those". The former is just ignorance. The latter is delusion. The two could not be less similar.

I'm really hoping that was just a troll on your part lori, cause it's a pretty stupid thing to say.

How is thinking you shouldn't have something a delusion? I don't like to eat avocados, so if someone gives me an avocado I'll think "yeah, I shouldn't have this avocado". Then as a rational economic agent I will act on my preferences and get rid of the avocado.

[Hauldren Collider]

Believing you are secretly a woman inside is a pretty clear cut case of delusion and mental illness. If I thought I was really a polar bear, I'd be delusional. If I thought I was Michael Jordan, I'd be delusional. If I thought I was a woman, I'd be delusional. Not wanting an avocado is not delusion.

Delusion also is not mental illness until it becomes an actual problem. If I thought I was good at singing I'd be delusional, but my bad singing (probably, depending on the severity of my bad singing ) wouldn't be worthy of classifying as mental illness.

If you wanna quibble about the mental illness definition, consider that we actually have prescription therapies for it.

[Pedotard]

Believing you are secretly a woman inside is a pretty clear cut case of delusion and mental illness. If I thought I was really a polar bear, I'd be delusional. If I thought I was Michael Jordan, I'd be delusional. If I thought I was a woman, I'd be delusional. Not wanting an avocado is not delusion.

If you wanna quibble about the mental illness definition, consider that we actually have prescription therapies for it.

If you felt like you should have been born a polar bear that wouldn't be a delusion. That would just be an unusual preference. If you wished you were Michael Jordan that would make sense to many people.

[Lorizael]

Believing in Christianity has nothing to do with and is not remotely similar to the much more proximate delusion of thinking you're a woman when you are quite clearly a man. Even to believe in something provably false like Creationism just requires disbelieving the words of scientists when they talk to you. Thinking you are a women means looking down at your cock and balls and thinking "yah I shouldn't have those". The former is just ignorance. The latter is delusion. The two could not be less similar.

I'm really hoping that was just a troll on your part lori, cause it's a pretty stupid thing to say. Ignorance is not mental illness. Delusion on the scale of transgenderism is.

Yes, this is the delusion to which I was referring. I've already argued against this claim in at least two threads, though, and the kucibros show no sign of understanding how wrong they are (possibly a delusion), so I'm not sure there's much point in rehashing it. But basically, you guys refuse to acknowledge that the human brain constructs a gender identity for a person and that this gender identity can be different from that person's physical characteristics. It is not delusional to believe that your gender identity differs from your biological sex. (The brain's constructed gender identity, btw, is how a person relates to their society's ideas about what constitutes the gender roles which are usually divided up by sex.)

[Imran Siddiqui]

To paraphrase something said earlier up there, and fix it, I honestly think we are going to look at people referring to transgender as a delusion someday the same way we look at people who referred to homosexuality as a delusion - with horror and disbelief.

[Aeson]

You tell em HC! And what's with all the amputees wanting to have arms and legs again? Don't they know they don't have arms and legs? WTF?