what happened to the großrossiya thread

[kentonio]

But let's say you're too brainwashed to realize that USA is one of the biggest evils in the world.

Fine. What about Saudi Arabia? It's the worst kind of feudal-era dictatorship. They're known to be one of the biggest supporters and suppliers of terrorists in the world (together with USA and Oman). Their people did 9/11. They're fighting an offensive war in Yemen for three years. And yet, they're best allies of NATO. Hmm?

This is pretty funny, as I've spent years reminding Americans here of some of the more ****ed up stuff they (and the UK) have done historically, and am an ardent opponent of any kind of alliance with Saudi Arabia. Then again, not all of us think in black and white terms where one side has to be good and one bad. Countries look out for their own interests, and that's largely all they ever do.

All this stuff about false flags is funny though. I take it Molotov-Ribbentrop was also a false flag planted by evil westerners too right?

[BeBMan]

All this stuff about false flags is funny though. I take it Molotov-Ribbentrop was also a false flag planted by evil westerners too right?

Stalin was an American agent, his alias was "uncle joe". Lenin was sent to Russia by westerners from Switzlerand via Germany in spring 1917...

[Aeson]

The planes are Aggressor squadron, which for many years have been painted in potential adversary colors and used for training. They aren't deployed for combat.

Plane type is far more distinctive than paint job is, and they carry different munitions so wouldn't be useful for a false flag attack. If the US was going to frame you, rest assured we'd do a much better job than just a paint job.

[Proteus_MST]

I guess the US airforce insignias on the side of the plane also would be a hindrance in any false flag operations

[BeBMan]

It's probably Switzerland using its F/A-18 painted as Russian but with US insignia to confuse everyone

[Bereta_Eder]

Now I understand why ellestar was pissed at france.

Yeah what she did was very hypocritical.
After gutting Libya and (somewhat participating in Syria) now "she is all sensitive about arabs" in allepo.

That this is hypocritical is a no brainer but the question (that some maybe wondering about) is WHY she did it.

The answer is very simple and smashingly self serving.

France has a LOT of muslims and they are not exactly considered creme de la creme by the french society.

There is tension.

By trying to present herself as "protector of the mooslims" and of course trying to shift blame to Russia, it tries to have two sparrows with one stone.

Trying to appease its native muslim polulace which through a combination of absolutely murderous US/UK policy and a french domestic maltreatment has become enraged, and lick a bit uncle sam's dick for some other favor some time in the future.

Very transperent, and doomed to failure

[Ellestar]

The planes are Aggressor squadron, which for many years have been painted in potential adversary colors and used for training. They aren't deployed for combat.

Plane type is far more distinctive than paint job is, and they carry different munitions so wouldn't be useful for a false flag attack. If the US was going to frame you, rest assured we'd do a much better job than just a paint job.

Yeah, USA usually doesn't even bother to prove anything.
Like with USA bombing of Aid Convoy in Syria, West instantly put the blame on Russia. And then it surfaced that it was actually USA, just another false flag operation.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-23/caught-tape-did-us-target-syrian-aid-convoy-hellfire-missile

It WAS fishy that supposed "bombing" didn't leave any craters near cars (but then again, when Western press ever cared about the truth if they were ordered to tell that Russia did it?). And then a result of the use of USA weapon was indentified on videos, and it become clear what kind of bombing it was.

They tried to do another fake (this time with OFAB-250 tail)

http://libyancivilwar.blogspot.ru/2016/09/how-we-can-know-russia-did-not-bomb.html

I mean, isn't it obvious, that 250 kg bomb should actually damage and/or burn paper? And that usually unguided bombs fall almost stragiht down, if the bombing happened from a medium or high altitude.

Basically, if something happens, and Western press seems to be orchestrated to blame Russia, it's safe to assume that West did it, unless 100% proven overwise.

[Aeson]

To simply assume that anything bad is because of the US is just as stupid as to assume the US does nothing wrong.

[Ellestar]

No, no, no. Not in any case. In the case when there is no evidence and West INSTANTLY blames Russia, it's safe to assume that it's a false flag operation.

How to "guess" it wasn't an airstrike by jets:

Syria, bombing of SARC covoy: explosions, but NO sound of jet engines

Yemen, bombing of a funeral: sound of a jet engine, explosion (btw it looks totally different), and a sound of jet engine again

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=03c_1475949889

But Western press magically doesn't see the difference. As if they're commanded to do so

[Ellestar]

By the way, this one points at a missile. There is a brief jet sound (as if from a weaker source than a jet plane), then explosion, then silence (so that rules out jet plane - it's engine is clearly heard on Yemen funeral bombing video after explosion, and sound propagates much-much better at night, there is easily up to 10x times the difference, and it's not a big city like Yemen bombing either).

[Aeson]

You are ignoring that "The West" (which is not a unified block as you seem to think it is) didn't instantly blame Russia, and news outlets didn't have a unified story.

Also if you see the full footage you can definitely hear jets, it was cut out from many news outlets as it came in a few seconds after the explosion. The footage starts very close to the explosion so it's possible there were sounds of jets at some point before the explosion as well. Depending on how far the jets were out when firing and their trajectory, altitude, relation to the camera vs explosion (and various other factors) can affect the timing of when the sound reaches the camera vs when the explosion happens. This is just laws of physics at work.

I don't offer any of this as "proof" that Russia or Syria did it ... because getting "proof" out of a schizophrenic war zone like Syria is a difficult thing. I don't expect to ever know what really happened. There are many possibilities. You on the other hand have an unwavering belief in the infallibility of Russia and have freely admitted that you simply assume anything bad pinned on Russia is a false flag by the US. It's clear that whether you are right or wrong about any given issue, you are the mindless, brainwashed one.

[Aeson]

The fact that you don't even stop to consider how positioning (altitude, range, relation to camera and bomb site) as well as other factors can affect timing and intensity of sound in a video just shows how completely unwilling or incapable you are to make an intelligent analysis of the information available.

[Ellestar]

Naturally, you didn't give any links to any specific videos. Classic western tactics: "we have the proof, but we won't show it to you, but it's definitely Russia".

Ok, what about bomb craters and/or bomb damage?

OFAB-250 tail is an obvious fake (reasons listed above, i won't bother repeating it again), and other than that, cars don't look like they're damaged by bombs with 94 kg of TNT. No craters either.

[Ellestar]

The fact that you don't even stop to consider how positioning (altitude, range, relation to camera and bomb site) as well as other factors can affect timing and intensity of sound in a video just shows how completely unwilling or incapable you are to make an intelligent analysis of the information available.

Yeah, yeah, so even video posted by your side doesn't prove anything... when you need to prove that it's not Russia. But they magically prove that it's Russia without any arguments at all. As i said, jet engine is clearly heard on Yemen video AFTER explosion, and that's in a city during a day. In nowhere during a night hearing is much better.

Also, i took videos of YOUR side and made an argument why it's not Russia, and posted a link to an opinion that exlosion looks like US predator drone missile one. You can't make any arguments at all how that video proves it's Russia.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

US has the best propaganda machinery the world has ever seen, and EU is 90% in.

Some notable successes in the 21st century:

* Saddam was responsible for 9/11 therefore we need to invade Iraq
* There is no problem with Saudi Arabia, we need to support them and sell them more weapons
* Gaddaffi is a threat to his people, we need to take him out
** (this one deserves two stars) Al Quaeda did 9-11, we need to start the war on terror and terrorists by invading the middle east, turning into Al Quaeda Al Nusra front are the good guys we need to sell them weapons and support them in their fight for freedom

Amazing.

There are many more naturally, but our propaganda chiefs and spin doctors earn the bucks they are paid (unlike bankers ***Wells Fargo ).