what happened to the großrossiya thread

[Dinner]

I love how Elle star is still pretending active duty Russian soldiers don't make up the vast, vast majority of so called "rebel" forces. Despite all the tapped confessions and how T-90 tanks and advanced equipment just magically appears along with all the trained men.

[Dinner]

That is just flat wrong. The current US production cost is one half of the Russian production cost and it is on the way to becoming one third of the Russian production cost. You most certainly can compete you can produce the same commodity for 1/3rd the price even if your transport costs are higher.

[Sir Og]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjA3Uop1HPU

[I AM MOBIUS]

Sending a few companies of instructors thousands of miles away from the Russian border to a country Russia claims not to be at war with is not provocative.

And as Oerdin pointed out, the troop levels aren't changing; the national composition is, that's all.

This thread has mostly covered two things: the petroleum industry, and the military. Oerdin may be wrong about a lot of stuff, but those are two things he knows way more about than you. He was in the army, and now he's a geologist.

Right now it is the very epitome of provocative - hence why Russia has called it such.

Not to mention that this exercise was only a few months after the last 'annual' exercise, or that it represented a 50% increase in US involvement - or that the only partner nation was Ukraine instead of over a dozen nations previously...

So, you're factually wrong on all counts.

Also, who gives a **** about Oerdin actually being in the military or being a geologist? It doesn't stop him being wrong on either count - maybe there'd be less wars in the world without so-called military 'experts', because war is their raison d-etre, after all...

As for the geology side of things, my degree just so happens to be in Environmental Geoscience. My concern in this regard is the issue of climate change and the fact that he appears to be promoting it - therefore my degree beats his degree in your simplistic view of who knows what.

The other thing you two don't seem to understand, is that the west can't beat Russia on sanctions alone, as dealing with hardship is hardwired into the Russian pysche. All it's really done is bolster Putin's support domestically...

[Bereta_Eder]

[I AM MOBIUS]

Clearly MOBIUS thinks that Russia has a right to be in control of their neighbors foreign policy. Clearly Ellestar feels that Russian troops are okay in Ukraine since they were not specifically included in the Minsk II agreement (although it did state that all foreign troops should be withdrawn from Ukrainian territory....which also means that our sending troops to train Ukraine is probably a violation as well...but since the Russians never left, one could assume that it is implied Russian acceptance of our right to be there as well. )

Both need to be more supportive of the fact that Ukraine is a sovereign nation.

Both the US and Russia, you mean...?

I agree. The US has been making aggressive inroads into the former Warsaw Pact/Soviet territories since the moment the iron curtain fell - is it any wonder that a newly resurgent Russia has been pushing back!?

Now they're both fighting a tug-of-war over Ukraine, just that the US' modus operandi has been less 'overt' than Russia's.

Russia can certainly influence its neighbors in many ways, but to have to introduce combat troops is nothing more than a sign of how weak Russia's influence really is. Russia having nuclear weapons is the equivalent of the neighborhood bully having a gun...nothing more.

Might makes right - that's why they're finally doing something about several decades of the west's erosion of Russia's previous sphere of influence. That's not a sign of weakness, much like the US having the world's most powerful armed forces by a long distance isn't either.

And no, I don't think that Russia has a right to be in control of their neighbours' foreign policy - but then neither do I think the US has that right over Ukraine either.

The fact of the matter is that since this latest Rapid Trident exercise, tensions in the Donbass have greatly increased:

Upswing in fighting in Ukraine sends civilians fleeing and puts truce in doubt

Eight Ukrainian soldiers killed in past week, and another 40 wounded in attacks by pro-Russia separatists, in most intense clashes since Minsk ceasefire.

The logical conclusion is that this renewed violence is as a direct result of the military exercises between the US and Ukraine. Whether you want to call it a 'provocation' or not, somebody seems to be using it as such...

Let's hope Russia doesn't feel 'weak' again and use it as an excuse to launch another offensive anytime soon to 'weakly' take the whole of the Donbass region and open up a land bridge to Crimea.

[binTravkin]

The US has been making aggressive inroads

I voted in a referendum to join NATO and EU.
Our neighbours voted too.
The outcome was positive.
Does it count as "agressive inroads" or is your definition of "agression" somewhat different from the common one?

[regexcellent]

binTravkin, where are you? Latvia?

[binTravkin]

Yes.
I'm like on 2nd front line on this and have been following closely.
We've even discussed with friends and colleagues what to do if "little green men" start appearing in our country.

For a few months last year I was considering leaving the country.
I left instead to country (was living in Riga, the capital).

EDIT:

the west can't beat Russia on sanctions alone, as dealing with hardship is hardwired into the Russian pysche

In 1991. Russian psyche was either resting or it's just another myth.
Similarly, if the economy was to fail like it did back then, the result in all likeliness would be the same.
My thinking is that the conditions even don't need to be that harsh, because the current regime is arguably less strict and less resourceful and Russians themselves are relatively more used to "good life" of recent (up to 2014) times.

[Ellestar]

I voted in a referendum to join NATO and EU.
Our neighbours voted too.
The outcome was positive.
Does it count as "agressive inroads" or is your definition of "agression" somewhat different from the common one?

Latvian untermensch... err, sorry, how do you call them in your local language, "non-citizens"? They also voted in a referendum?

[binTravkin]

Obviously non-citizens did not vote as they lack the voting rights as in any other country.
That's about the only thing they lack from rights perspective, nobody (but themselves) is really treating them like untermensch.
I used to work in a company that was dominantly Russian and had both non-citizen and citizen-of-Russia colleagues.
None of them showed any sign of being mistreated.
When asked about "here and there" they were like "I would only consider move to Russia if the pay was significantly higher".
In fact, that happened some time after I first registered on Poly and around the time Latvia joined EU.

To illustrate what I'm saying about untermensch.
Last Christmas there was a charity initiative - "visit Latgale", it being a region of Latvia with most poverty, oldest average age and also more Russian (~1/3) than average (~1/4).
A few of my former colleagues and friends participated, including ethnic Russians (but citizens of Latvia, if that changes anything).
The idea was to drive there and present some modest gifts like candles, cakes, warm mittens, etc and make a small celebration in the village - Xmas tree, fireworks, etc.
Some of the old ethnic russian people they visited, upon hearing their intent would express "It must be because I'm poor!" ("Eto naverno potomu shto ja maloimushaya", sorry, this keyboard doesn't have ICUKEN if you know what I mean) and slammed the door.
You can't help people who don't want help and are hostile.

[The Mad Monk]

[Hauldren Collider]

binTravkin, what would you think of a US or NATO overseas military base being established in Latvia? Just curious what the general opinion is over there of the United States.

[Dinner]

Frankly the Baltic states are militarily indefensible. It is still good they are in NATO and that does help to add to security as a deterrent if nothing else but if Russia wants to take the Baltic states we can't stop them though ultimately the west probably would win the resulting war.

[Dinner]

Oh, and poor Mobius seems to have gone off the deep end babbling more untrue nonsense. I mean where the hell did he ever get the idea that I was some how a global climate change denier? Seriously dude, please know what your talking about before you babble nonsense.