Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Exit Polls Suggest Syriza Has Won Greek Election

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • in a similar vein here's an article from a spokewoman for the european elite about podemos. the silly and inaccurate content is unimportant, it's the palpable sense of fear that's interesting.

    If first impressions count, then the political force that wants to transform Spain in 2015 consists mainly of student types and self-conscious outsiders. That, at any rate, is the scene when you enter Podemos’s crammed, disorderly office in Madrid’s popular Lavapiés district. Posters are being prepared for the movement’s first big street demonstration, planned for 31 January. A young woman sitting in front of a computer says she has no job and decided to become a Podemos volunteer because “if we don’t start taking things into our hands, la casta will just continue as before”.

    This is the closest thing Spain has to Syriza, the radical leftwing party that just came to power in Greece. Only a year after its launch last January, Podemos (“We can”) is riding high in opinion polls. General elections are due at the end of the year. Just like Syriza, Podemos has a charismatic leader, the pony-tailed 36-year-old professor of political science, Pablo Iglesias. Like Syriza, Podemos calls for an end to traditional politics and rolling back austerity. Its key target is la casta (“the caste”), the dominant two-party system that has ruled Spain since democracy was restored in the late 1970s, after Franco’s death.

    Opposite the Podemos office, there’s a book shop run by some of its activists. Browsing through it feels like you’ve stepped into a time-machine: there are collections of Lenin’s works, and books on the Italian communist thinker Antonio Gramsci and the French 19th-century revolutionary Louise Michel.

    The more likely clue to Podemos’s rise can be found on the television news: an endless stream of revelations about corruption cases. Spain’s macroeconomic situation may have improved, but that hasn’t translated yet into improved living standards: youth unemployment still stands at a staggering 50%. Podemos taps into the despair over these numbers just as Syriza has done in Greece. It offers new young faces and resorts to social media in its bid to modernise Spanish politics, calling for more social justice and democratic accountability of the elites. But beyond that, its programme remains vague.

    Podemos certainly fascinates. Unlike Syriza, it didn’t even exist a few years ago. It stormed Spanish politics last May by gaining an unexpected 8% of votes in the European parliamentary elections. This came as a surprise to many. In fact it was the result of a clever strategy put together by a small group of Madrid leftwing intellectuals.

    This is how it happened: when the 2011 Indignados youth protests died down in Spain, a group of political scientists from the capital’s Complutense university, including Iglesias, saw an opportunity. They built on the online networks for the Indignados and put into practice some of the political techniques they had learned while studying Gramsci and the Argentinian post-Marxist political theorist Ernesto Laclau, an influential advocate of political populism. Out of this was borne Podemos’s central narrative: “The people versus la casta.” “They understood the key was not to dwell on class consciousness,” says political analyst Fernando Vallespín, “but to frame the very perception of politics.” It worked. Many Spaniards watching the eloquent Iglesias on TV or online started to identify the “casta”, the ruling class, as the source of their woes. One only needs to remember past headlines about Spain’s spectacular economic success story in the early 2000s, when easy credit fed a construction bubble, to realise how much of a boom-to-bust phenomenon has weighed on the national psyche. One middle-aged Spaniard put if to me this way: “We discovered we weren’t as good as we thought. We thought Spain had qualified to be at the heart of Europe, and all of a sudden, we were rejected to its lame periphery …”

    There is an admirable romanticism to Podemos shaking up a sclerotic political scene. But behind its utopian energy there is more cold-blooded realpolitik than meets the eye. Podemos portrays itself as giving a voice to the ordinary citizens consulted on the internet or through hundreds of spontaneous assemblies called “circles”. Yet once the online voting has happened, the overall message is decided by a 10-member coordination council, nominated by Iglesias. At its worst, Podemos could resemble something like Leninist-centralism-meets-the-digital-era.

    Explaining his communication strategy, Iglesias once pointed out how in 1917 Lenin “didn’t talk to the Russians about ‘dialectical materialism’, he talked to them about ‘bread and peace’”. The Podemos leader also believes that “Heaven is not taken by consensus, it is taken by assault.” Such statements have made it easy for critics to accuse Iglesias of authoritarian tendencies, influenced by outdated ideologies.

    Iglesias and his close circle of friends in the Podemos leadership have spent time in Venezuela and Bolivia in the last decade, some of them acting as advisers to regimes whose democratic credentials aren’t exactly solid. Questions have been raised in the Spanish media about financial dealings from the regime of the late Venezuelan leader Hugo Chávez, whom Iglesias has expressed admiration for. Podemos has since toned down its rhetoric about Bolivarian revolutions; it now claims to want to mimic northern European social democrats instead.

    But the impression of ideological muddle endures. During the Maidan protests in Ukraine, Iglesias largely came down on the side of Putin’s propaganda. And when Syriza formed a coalition with the antisemitic, far-right Independent Greek party, Iglesias defended it as “a programmatic choice”.

    Podemos has successfully captured a mood of popular protest in Spain, but it is now aiming to structure itself as a credible and reassuring political party. It claims to renew democracy, yet it knows complex issues cannot always be addressed via online petitions. It has the ambition of a mass movement but is run by a tight circle of professors. It talks about hope but its casta narrative is very Manichean.

    Some say the pragmatic transformation is already under way. They compare Pablo Iglesias to the young Felipe González, the former socialist prime minister who understood that his party needed to shed itself of radicalism in order to be elected in 1982. Spain, like Greece, is undergoing a generational shift. Diego Pacheco, a Podemos activist born in 1986 – the year Spain joined the European Community – speaks passionately about a quest for “empowerment”. “Podemos is not about being anti-EU, but about finding a way to move beyond the system that emerged from the post-Franco transition that our parents were part of,” he says.

    Spain’s economic recovery will make it harder for Podemos than Syriza to win elections. Its main competitor, the Spanish Socialist party, still has more strength than Pasok. The digital meeting place Podemos has built might also show its limits. After Greece, Spain is likely to be the next country entering uncharted political waters in 2015, but it would be naive to think the electoral outcome will be as clear cut.
    "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

    "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

    Comment


    • You know I have predicted all of this would happen?
      Yes I have.
      I've written it here: first Greece then Spain etc...

      I really enjoy your discussion here and many points have merits (except Oerdin who's always wrong )

      I will only contribute with a nice song I'v heard during the winning rallies in syriza

      You can dance to it too

      Comment


      • BTW It's the first time, a party I voted for wins.

        It has a strange tintilizing effect.

        Comment


        • Ok i cant resist another political prediction written in the poly way.

          whatever schoible/varufakis agree on or not, doesn't matter.

          there is a grand democratic deficit/contradiction now going on in spain portugal and elsewhere between what the majority of people want and what their govs are doing.
          It will be corrected.

          Whatever deal is struck, program extension, national wealth redistribution, sure it will aleviate some things.
          But it doesn't matter.

          The EU is doomed IF it doesn't drastically alter its wealth redistribution mechanisms.
          Either you share or you seaze to be a union, for real.

          That should have become apparent through democratic deficiencies, silent concent procedures, the maastricht treaty of the '90s.

          All the warning signs were there.
          If you let spaces empty of democracy, free markets tend to fill them. And we all know that's no good.

          Russia/Greece repproachement will continue.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Dinner View Post
            It means they have a choice. Either they have to give up the retarded policies of the new government t or get kicked out. In the long run getting kicked out might be a good thing because it will allow them to have control over their own monitory policy again but in the short to medium term they are going to be screwed economically; much more than in the last five years. Eventually, they really will have to reform their corrupt political culture and protected inefficient economy filled with rent seeking special interest groups.
            This makes very little sense.
            To us, it is the BEAST.

            Comment


            • Oh.
              Also,

              there is such strong opposition in the internet, critisism here is like blanks.
              Critisism/ satire from both sides. This has to be the most vitriolic pro and after election period I can remember. Some awesome jokes though, if you don't really take them seriously.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bereta_Eder View Post
                there is a grand democratic deficit/contradiction now going on in spain portugal and elsewhere between what the majority of people want and what their govs are doing.
                It will be corrected.
                Yeah. And the correction will last all of five seconds.
                Indifference is Bliss

                Comment


                • Not necessarily hombre

                  Comment


                  • as the rhetoric goes,
                    countries like portugal spain greece are like the canary (the yellow bird?) in the mine, that miners used to have to see when they are running out of oxygen and turn back.
                    systemic danger and all that.
                    besides, syriza clearly wants to combat corruption/ simplify legal framework and tax the rich, detax the poor. if it will get the time and manages to do it, spendid, but it still will not help much, IMO, since the EU system is pretty much broken as it is.

                    that a policy of austerity doesnt help and will spread like cancer throughout europe is a given I think (as it is happening).
                    that even if the austerity policy is reversed, then we will all be a happy family, I still don't see it without a wealth redistribution system.
                    Last edited by Bereta_Eder; February 6, 2015, 08:10.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bereta_Eder View Post
                      tax the rich, detax the poor
                      To us, it is the BEAST.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Bereta_Eder View Post
                        , since the EU system is pretty much broken as it is.
                        This, if Greece does not manage to help current Eurocrats to wake up, Greece should exit, default, it will be better in the long term for you.
                        Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
                        GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

                        Comment


                        • Also - showdown set for next week.




                          Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis will not agree to anything at a meeting with euro zone partners next week that keeps Greece's current international bailout programme in place, a government official said on Friday.

                          Instead Greece will ask for a "bridge agreement" to keep its finances running until Athens is able to present a new debt and reform programme.

                          "We will not accept any deal which is not related to a new programme," the official, who asked not to be named, said.

                          Varoufakis has just returned to Athens after a tour of European capitals in which he received scant support for his new left-wing government's pledge to end austerity imposed under the bailout from the European Union and International Monetary Fund.

                          Eurogroup finance ministers will discuss how to proceed with financial support for Athens at a special session next Wednesday in preparation for talks among EU leaders on the issue the following day.
                          Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
                          GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

                          Comment


                          • it will be interesting to see what happens. i suspect that the eurozone will blink first.
                            "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                            "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by C0ckney View Post
                              it will be interesting to see what happens. i suspect that the eurozone will blink first.
                              Of course. I mean if Greece defaults and leaves, while it will be very painful for Greek in the short term (very high inflation for one), it means that the Eurozone doesn't get paid. The 'hard line' will look very silly if that occurs. There is a reason why, in the US, student loan companies try everything they can to get folks to pay, including deferrals and even linking payments with income - because default means they don't get a dime.

                              Interestingly enough, Oerdin, in US terms, is very anti-austerity practices. Was pro Obama's stimulus. I wonder if his Arab racism is simply climbing up the Mediterranean.
                              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                              Comment


                              • EU certainly has more to lose, as defaulting will be a breath of fresh air for suffocating Greeks, while Germans/et all will have to deal with Portugese, Spanish, Italians, French .

                                Greeks can compare Argentina 5 years after default to themselves and what they will find out is that unemployment was back to 6-8% from 25%+, poverty in the society has therefore drastically reduced, etc.

                                When will that happen in Greece under current EU policies?

                                Never, as the policies are designed to keep the current status quo suiting German economy and killing the periphery, this together with general lack of democracy in the important decision making EU bodies, the Greeks can do us all a favour and say a clear no to the EU setup as it is.

                                Basically Greeks should default, let the EU write off 300bn, while they get on with fixing their own country financed out of the surplus that they already have, and if you add on about 15% of government revenues which currently go to service the debt, they will have more scope to work with for sure
                                Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
                                GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X