UK General Election thread

[kentonio]

they haven't any resources, but we mustn't give them any or someone might steal them.

So that'll be tough question avoidance then?

i would probably focus on the potential benefits that they can appreciate: fewer immigrants; a richer third world means more trade and so forth.

Damn, and I thought I had a low opinion of the general population!

You're tripping btw if you think any of that would make people vote for giving away a large amount of national wealth. All the rival parties have to do it point at a rough area of Britain and say 'we have these problems at home, and you want to give money away to the third world' and you just got your ass handed to you in the countries largest ever landslide defeat.

[Sava]

You're tripping

ngawat

[C0ckney]

So that'll be tough question avoidance then?

you should try asking a tough question rather than a silly one.

Damn, and I thought I had a low opinion of the general population!

You're tripping btw if you think any of that would make people vote for giving away a large amount of national wealth. All the rival parties have to do it point at a rough area of Britain and say 'we have these problems at home, and you want to give money away to the third world' and you just got your ass handed to you in the countries largest ever landslide defeat.

i'm surprised you didn't see that my tongue was in my cheek when talking about base politics...

but in any case, you cannot on the one hand say "people will never go for that because it has no connection with their lives" and on the other say "you're going to connect it with people's lives, you must have a very low opinion of them".

[I AM MOBIUS]

If we really cared about improving living standards in Africa, we wouldn't be sending them money, we'd be doing things like getting rid of Boko Haram.

BLAME OBAMA!!!

America doesn't care about black people because we're not cluster bombing Boko Haram!

[kentonio]

you should try asking a tough question rather than a silly one.

Why exactly is that silly? You're the one spouting idealistic crap about how we should just ignore the people who actually run third world countries and just deal with local communities, yet asking you how this is supposed to actually work in the real world is silly? What exactly happens when the people who control the police and the army decide that your new projects would be better off owned by them? Do we then intervene militarily, or just wring our hands and whine about how at least we tried?

i'm surprised you didn't see that my tongue was in my cheek when talking about base politics...

but in any case, you cannot on the one hand say "people will never go for that because it has no connection with their lives" and on the other say "you're going to connect it with people's lives, you must have a very low opinion of them".

What you proposed was not going to connect anything with anyones lives, you suggested a poster campaign ffs and then went on to say that we could just tell people it'd result in less immigrants, and that would do the trick electorally. I'm actually a bit puzzled, have you ever actually met a real person?

[Dauphin]

well fair enough, everyone has a right to their own opinion and political views, and to vote for whoever they wish. given the dislike you expressed in this thread for labour and SNP figures, it's unlikely that an option further to the left would appeal to you.

My dislike for the named individuals is less about politics and more about their personality on display. The only exception is May, who is a Tory, and I dislike her for her attempts to sacrifice privacy for the promise of security. Possibly I just don't like Home Secretaries as the office makes them more authoritarian.

I saw Natalie Bennett's interview on the morning show. Car crash even allowing for the overly aggressive interviewing. The questions posed to her on the removal of the personal allowance - and implying that it raises tax on the poor - was an easy one to answer. The increase in tax as a loss of allowance (about £40 a week) is more than offset by the £72 a week grant. Did she say that? Nope. Similar logic to the cost of the £72 a week - a large portion of that is clawed back by the removal of the allowance. Did she make that clear? No. The debates could go badly for the Greens on that showing.

[kentonio]

Often happens when people who don't get much TV time suddenly come into the spotlight though. It takes time for them to become media savvy enough to stand up to the big media focus.

[C0ckney]

I saw Natalie Bennett's interview on the morning show. Car crash even allowing for the overly aggressive interviewing.

yes some people do well in that kind of format, salmond, johnson, and even farage are good examples, but others don't. the green party's policies are fully explained on their wesbite (i've provided the link in this thread), far more so than any other party's.

[C0ckney]

Why exactly is that silly? You're the one spouting idealistic crap about how we should just ignore the people who actually run third world countries and just deal with local communities, yet asking you how this is supposed to actually work in the real world is silly? What exactly happens when the people who control the police and the army decide that your new projects would be better off owned by them? Do we then intervene militarily, or just wring our hands and whine about how at least we tried?

it's hard to say this without being rude, but this post is typical of you. you bang on endlessly about the 'real world', yet nothing you write shows that you have any idea about it; certainly not the 'real world' that i, living in the third world, recognise.

perhaps it comes from a misunderstanding what i wrote, so i'll post it again.

i would suggest that any such programme needs to bypass states as far as possible and give money directly to local communities, along with technical expertise where necessary.

obviously there are projects that can be handled at a community level, projects that be handled at a regional level, and some which can only be handled at a national level. as for such projects that do not need regional/national involvement can be handled, instead of acting as if it were a brand new and untested idea, you would do better to look at the countless NGOs that work directly with local communities (i am/have been personally involved with some here). i expect they have some ideas about how to do it.

have you ever actually met a real person?

you mean as opposed to ersatz people?

[Dauphin]

yes some people do well in that kind of format, salmond, johnson, and even farage are good examples, but others don't. the green party's policies are fully explained on their wesbite (i've provided the link in this thread), far more so than any other party's.

I cringed every time she said 'see our website' when asked a question about Green policies.

[C0ckney]

it's the best advice for someone who actually wants to know about green party policies, but in an age of soundbites it probably won't play well.

[kentonio]

it's hard to say this without being rude, but this post is typical of you. you bang on endlessly about the 'real world', yet nothing you write shows that you have any idea about it; certainly not the 'real world' that i, living in the third world, recognise.

I was talking about the 'real world' meaning normal everyday life in Britain. You know, the country you keep talking casually about changing beyond recognition whilst showing little or no familiarity with how the people there actually think and vote.

perhaps it comes from a misunderstanding what i wrote, so i'll post it again.

obviously there are projects that can be handled at a community level, projects that be handled at a regional level, and some which can only be handled at a national level. as for such projects that do not need regional/national involvement can be handled, instead of acting as if it were a brand new and untested idea, you would do better to look at the countless NGOs that work directly with local communities (i am/have been personally involved with some here). i expect they have some ideas about how to do it.

None of your experience involves handing over huge swathes of western wealth to the third world, so imagining that it could be carried out in the same way as current NGOs operate is optimistic to say the least. You're talking about the kind of spending that would change those countries beyond all recognition (which was the whole point afterall) so casually shrugging off the infuence that governments there would have over all this seems idealistic in the extreme.

[C0ckney]

I was talking about the 'real world' meaning normal everyday life in Britain. You know, the country you keep talking casually about changing beyond recognition whilst showing little or no familiarity with how the people there actually think and vote.

no you weren't. you were talking about warlords, corruption, and how any money that given will be immediately stolen by bad people. it's all written here on this page ken; i don't expect this sort of deflection from you.

and i don't see why i should accept you as an arbiter of how people in britain think and vote. i've seen it for myself, i lived most of my life there; that's why i want to change it.

None of your experience involves handing over huge swathes of western wealth to the third world, so imagining that it could be carried out in the same way as current NGOs operate is optimistic to say the least. You're talking about the kind of spending that would change those countries beyond all recognition (which was the whole point afterall) so casually shrugging off the infuence that governments there would have over all this seems idealistic in the extreme.

again there are already NGOs working with directly local communities. they have no doubt experienced the problems you mentioned, and many others you didn't, and have developed diverse strategies and approaches to deal with the diverse situations that exist. it's remarkable that i have to point this out to someone who keeps talking about the 'real world' (while ignoring what is actually happening in it).

[Sava]

kentonio's caterwauling boils down to this:

"IT WILL BE DIFFICULT WAHHHHHH SO LETS NOT DO IT"
"WE CANT MAKE THE WORLD PERFECT WITHOUT SPENDING MONEY"
WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

He'd probably support foreign aid more if the money went straight into a monarch's pocket.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

I was talking about the 'real world' meaning normal everyday life in Britain. You know, the country you keep talking casually about changing beyond recognition whilst showing little or no familiarity with how the people there actually think and vote.

I think the Prince Philip thread has demonstrated that your feelings about the whole voting issue in Britain, so this isn't so much moot as bleakly hilarious.