UK General Election thread

[Hauldren Collider]

No it isn't unquestionable worse. The 70's was a time when food was a genuine worry for a lot of people, and it wasn't in the slightest bit uncommon for couples to meet up and share food to reduce living costs. Please explain how the poorest peoples lives have supposedly become worse, because I'm not seeing it.

I'm gonna take a shot at cockney philosophy:
Well, rich people are really really really rich, even richer than they were in the 70s, so the fact that even lower-middle class can afford internet and iphones and cars with airbags now doesn't matter because they still don't get to have yachts.

[Provost Harrison]

You mentioned my name? And burgers

[Bereta_Eder]

That's bull****. An increasing gap between the poorest and the richest is a natural and essential consequence of overall increase in wealth. When everyone lives in mud huts, the richest man is not much richer than the poorest man. But the poorest of the poor are vastly richer than the poorest of the poor would be in our hypothetical mudhut society. And anyway I'm pretty sure Vonnegut covered this in Harrison Bergeron already.

Isn't like 30 million americans living under poverty line? And basically noone having medical care? How is that progress?

[Bereta_Eder]

People are probably better off in Venezuela overall.

[Hauldren Collider]

Isn't like 30 million americans living under poverty line?

The poverty line moves to include the bottom % of the population. If the country were twice as wealthy we'd still have 30 million "poor people". Virtually everyone in Greece would be considered poor--even below the poverty line--here.

And basically noone having medical care? How is that progress?

Where the **** did you get that notion? There's a tiny portion of the population that is uninsured--almost entirely by choice. It's mostly middle-class self-employed young people who think they are invincible. Those that actually can't afford it get Medicaid, which is a ****ty system, but that's another story. Almost every full time job provides medical insurance. The only ones that don't are generally part-time retail or restaurant jobs.

People are probably better off in Venezuela overall.

You're retarded.

[Bereta_Eder]

Even now that it's in tatters Greece is richer than Mississippi. Probably way more pretty too.

[DinoDoc]

U.K. General Election Predictions

[kentonio]

Well, that is basically the definition of conservatism, most of their 'progress' is being dragged kicking and screaming into the real world - changing only when they realise their position is becoming to unpopular to remain electable. It reminds me a bit of the upheaval going through the CoE.

No, that's the left wing definition of a conservative. Wanting to hear societal changes properly thought out before they are enacted, and believing that change for the sake of change isn't always a positive is conservatism. Produce a good plan with tangible benefits and (UK) conservatives can get behind all sorts of huge social changes.

Er, no: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...iage-vote.html

What's your point? Is it supposed to be a surprise that lots of conservatives were against gay marriage? Yet the party supported it anyway.

Cameron is basically a political opportunist - a tory Tony Blair if you will...

Cameron's a politician? Surely not..

The tory party is intrinsically homophobic. The only reason the vote succeeded was that it was pushed by their liberal coalition partners.

Bollocks. The Tory party was intrinsically homophobic at the time when the UK was intrinsically homophobic. Times change.

Oh God, all this drivel again!

We've been over that bull**** countless times in different threads!

North Sea oil saved the UK...

What a lot of ****.

Yes, because Thatcher ****ed them over so badly in the first place and New Labour continued the job!

Again, ever since Thatcher, the NHS has always been at risk - if she - or any other tory govt thought they could get away with it, it would have been privatised long ago! Are you that stupid not to realise that!?

You need to get a rabies shot, and stop frothing. You're just shouting boring black and white inanities, without any thought of how vast the number of people in each of the parties actually is. The Tory party contains a huge number of different camps, and different camps gain dominance at different times. If you can't see that, then you really don't know what you're talking about.

Don't you see the utter contradiction there!? It's breathtaking! On the one hand you're calling for lurches to the left or right - and then on the other hand you're calling for a healthy balance!!?

Surely the healthy balance is a third way: centrist politics.

No, sitting in the centre is about the worst possible idea for several reasons, firstly you end up with what we had a couple of years ago when the major parties all basically become indistinguishable from each other, and worse we end up with exactly what you claim to hate, the kind of conservatism you wrongly attribute to the Tory party. We need the left and the right coming in at various points to introduce new ideas and push the country in different directions so we can evolve through experiencing what works and what doesn't, and injecting new ideas into the national discourse. It's also a lot more democratic than just having the country working within a very narrow centrist band.

Again agreed.

And that is why the only possible sensible vote to cast is Liberal Democrat.

Except the reason the Lib Dems ended up in the mess they did, is because they made a ton of promises they were never going to be able to keep, because NO-ONE expected them to actually get into power. Once they did, they were screwed because there was no way they could deliver, and the voters are too dumb to understand that compromise and acting as a moderating influence is actually important.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Thanks for actually bringing us back to topic DD (or attempting to)

[Hauldren Collider]

Even now that it's in tatters Greece is richer than Mississippi. Probably way more pretty too.

No, it's not. Not even close. At least in terms of wealth. I don't know about pretty. But I would guess that places where you get riots over bus fares aren't that pretty.

Edit: Greece's median household income, according to the internet, is $13,366. Mississippi's is $36,338. Congratulations. You're twice as poor as our poorest state.

[Bereta_Eder]

Come on in the US they let people die outside of hospitals if their credit card doesn't check out.
I'd rather live in Venezuela.

[Imran Siddiqui]

U.K. General Election Predictions

And we see the problem if Labour decides not to enter into coalition with the SNP. The only solution could be a grand coalition of Conservatives and Labour as there really isn't much other way to get a majority.

[C0ckney]

yes, i have worked in both. as you haven't tried either, let me explain to you the key differences.

1) factory work is, as a rule, much better paid than call centre work.
2) it is also far more secure and stable.
3) there is an enormous difference between the feeling one gets from producing something, and the one one gets from at best dealing with a constant barrage of complaints, or at worst doing something dishonest and borderline illegal. this has clear psychological effects; call centre workers are the least happy and most isolated office workers in the UK.
4) although the wage labour system seeks to alienate workers and strip all dignity from them, working in factory assembling something is certainly far more dignified than being told to **** off for the forty sixth time that day by people who don't want to buy whatever crap one is selling.
5) the pressure in a call centre, especially one dedicated to sales, is hard to cope with. one is monitored all the time and treated like a child. in factory there is less pressure and one is treated decently.

it is true that factory is more dangerous than call centre work, but the number of deaths (14 in the UK last year in manufacturing) is very low and factory workers routinely undertake more risky activities, such as driving, than their work.

edit: that was an incredible x-post. i was responded to HC's post #281

[kentonio]

Where the **** did you get that notion? There's a tiny portion of the population that is uninsured--almost entirely by choice. It's mostly middle-class self-employed young people who think they are invincible. Those that actually can't afford it get Medicaid, which is a ****ty system, but that's another story. Almost every full time job provides medical insurance. The only ones that don't are generally part-time retail or restaurant jobs.

You're retarded.

Which is why in 2009 you still had 45,000 people a year dying due to lack of health insurance..

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/...58G6W520090917

[kentonio]

And we see the problem if Labour decides not to enter into coalition with the SNP. The only solution could be a grand coalition of Conservatives and Labour as there really isn't much other way to get a majority.

Why, what's wrong with Labour-Liberal Democrats?