France and Germany want their cut of UK drug and pimp money

[Dauphin]

I take that back if 2/3rds of the amount payable will be returned as a rebate, which is possible.

[C0ckney]

the technical aspects don't matter; it's the political effects that count. the out-of-touch EU 'taking' money from crisis hit states (greece, cyprus, italy) will play very well for eurosceptic politicians, like this guy who won 25% in the last italian elections.

'The Most Dangerous Man In Europe' Is Trying To Pull Italy Out Of The Euro

Beppe Grillo, the leader of Italy's populist Five Star Movement, has launched a petition to allow Italy to "leave the euro as soon as possible."

Grillo rose to prominence as a comedian and actor but since 2009 he has transformed himself into the charismatic leader of a protest movement that has seen its support growing across Italy. His sharp criticism of German-led policies that have pushed harsh austerity onto struggling Southern European economies and push for Italy to abandon the euro have seen him dubbed 'the most dangerous man in Europe' in the German press.

As testament to its growing popularity the party came third in last year's general election taking 25% of the vote and followed this with a second place finish in the European Parliament elections in May with 21.6%. Now Grillo is looking to harness his popularity to force a referendum on Italy's future in Europe's single currency.

At a rally over the weekend he said:

Tonight we are launching a consultative referendum. We will collect half a million signatures in six months – a million signatures – and we will take our case to parliament, and this time thanks to our 150 legislators, they will have to talk to us.

Although such a referendum would not be legally binding, it poses yet another headache for Prime Minister Matteo Renzi as he attempts to implement a reform program. Renzi survived a raucous vote of confidence last week in the Italian senate over his proposals to reform Italy's labor laws that economists claim have been holding back job creation and undermining the case for investment in the country.

The reforms are seen as critical to maintaining broader Eurozone, and particularly German, support for the government with Italy's economy stalling and debt-to-GDP forecast to rise to 138% by the end of 2015. Loss of support could result in substantially higher borrowing costs, putting additional pressure on the country's already strained finances.

If Grillo is able to hit his target of a million signatures pressure will be on Renzi to respond to his demands. Any sign that he is willing to backtrack on his commitment to the reform program could trigger another round of bond market panic in the ongoing Eurozone crisis, something that European leaders will be desperate to avoid.

[Dinner]

The solution is simple. The UK should revise its official estimate of the blaack market down to zero and demand a rebate from the EU for over payment.

[Dinner]

Stuff like this is why Norway refuses to join the EU. They know the EU would demand a big cut of the oil money so Norway stays out and keeps 100% of the money in Norway helping their citizens instead of subsidising lazy southern Europeans.

[Bereta_Eder]

After the arabs, the southern Europeans... does it ever stop?

Personally I feel very special that 28 countries went in the EU so just to take care of us. I know we're the sh!t but so much altruism is moving.

I wonder what does it take to pass the Dinner test?
One must not be an arab, he's screwed from the beggining, so that's out.
Also muslims are inferior due to religion, so if you're one TOO BAD!
South Europeans in the Dinner Scale are somewhat more passable but darn lazy too, so maybe ok for a beer or two but that's it.

And to top all of it, you shouldn't be a republican!
(that's somewhat discordonant with the rest but ok)

[kentonio]

Manner schmanner. I haven't looked it up and I'm not certain yet certain that the date the dough is supposed to be paidd is just the date dues are paid every year. These kind of revisions apparently are also a regular thing, just not of this size. The real scandal here is that Cameron bloody well knew what was coming and kept silent. No, it isn't politically opportune, but you guys have an annual rebate several the sum you're due and I think you're underestmating how ill that sits with the rest of the EU, so don't expect any sympathy.

Exactly the sort of stupid arrogance that could well lead to the UK voting to leave the EU, ****ing us all over in the process.

[Dr Strangelove]

Does the UK government get a cut from drug and prostitution money? Generally most drug dealers and prostitutes don't pay taxes on their income, so governments don't get benefit from that part of their economy. True, the drug dealers and prostitutes, will buy things, but that economic activity does get taxed so that economic activity was already figured in. That is of course except for the drugs bought by the prostitutes and the drug dealers, but there again, the government doesn't get to tax that.

[C0ckney]

Exactly the sort of stupid arrogance that could well lead to the UK voting to leave the EU, ****ing us all over in the process.

i very much doubt any the UK parties (except UKIP) will actually offer a referendum; the people might vote the 'wrong' way after all...

[Sir Og]

the technical aspects don't matter; it's the political effects that count. the out-of-touch EU 'taking' money from crisis hit states (greece, cyprus, italy) will play very well for eurosceptic politicians, like this guy who won 25% in the last italian elections.

From what you quoted it seem they want to leave the euro.
Leaving the eurozone is actually a good idea. Leaving the EU not so much.
It is safe to say that if it wasn't for the euro the way the ECB has handled things euro-scepticism would be significantly less.

The current system and the tight money policy by the ECB is ruining things for everybody who is attached to the euro. Nobody in Europe cares to admit/discuss that so the masses are left with the vague feeling that the EU is just not working and this leads to anti-EU parties gaining ground.

[C0ckney]

yes the five star movement wants out of the euro, but this, as we saw with greece when it flirted briefly with sanity, is completely politically unacceptable to other eurozone members.

it's certainly true to say that if the crisis had been handled better, and it could hardly have been handled worse, people wouldn't be so angry with the EU. however the crisis has exposed various truths to people in stark terms: the EU is a capitalist organisation, and will choose the interests of capitalists, bankers and landlords over those of workers when push comes to shove; the cosy political consensus among mainstream european parties about the EU and its direction; the inability of these same politicians to offer solutions for their people, at either a national or european level.

it's the culmination of things that have been building up for a long time; the building of a model which few really want (see for example georges berthu's l'europe sans les peuples), with no real involvement and only the most grudging consent from the people. a crisis now threatens the model that the european elite created, and which ironically they cannot resolve because of this very model they created. the people have seen their living standards fall and blame the elite and their distant project for not being able to arrest the decline. it's not surprising that new forces have emerged and are emerging to challenge this cosy consensus.

[Bereta_Eder]

This small flirtation with sanity (what a phrase ) was knifed by immense amounts of fearmongering.
The scenario where the apocalypse, the second coming and armageddon were all thrown in a mixer and were about to be delivered to us in short notice was prevalent untill every idea of an alternative path was squashed.
Fear is the best friend of power. It creates docile people.

To be fair though, the manoeuvre margin was always limited.
Iceland is a good example of what an independent, democratic country can do when faced with such dilemas. But also Portugal (or was it Ireland) where they put their foot down and made sure that the social state would suffer minimal casualties from the reforms.
The front though is twofold. A system where austerity is the only way and at the same time a total protection of the big capital that hasn't contributed one cent towards the exit of the crisis.
The ruling class never had a problem. Were it with the ottomans, the nazis, the angloamericans or the troika it always was happy to collaborate and protect its interests. (not equalizing everything of course)
The question of good governance always had an element of self determination in it. And was achieved every time, for a short period of time.
Here's where Kentonio will scold me, but the main thing that has always saved this country (from my perspective) was a very self conscious, robust and fighting left wing that for all its ideological fixations had deep roots of resistance and historical basis and a cosmotheory that nomatter how vague sometimes, was always strictly attached to democracy, meritocracy and a strong social state.
It has never got to power though. Maybe now it will but it is a bit toothless, the process of assimilation has started long ago.
The rational is simple and unsurmountable: those that got us into the crisis cannot possibly get us out of it (concerning the internal front).
The ones that are in power now are the far right wing of the conservative party. A hilarious constelation of petty dictators and self serving clueless hillbilies.Has very little to do with the more or less respected and certaintly sane main centrist conservative party that was decimated along the socialists.
The one responsible for health (where some reforms were long overdue and were made but in the process it burned down half the field) has a favorable pass time of screaming on TV about how many millions stalin killed.
I'm sure there were many but I don't see this argument winning any hearts when the issue is why the hospitals are ****ed for example or the unemployment or the salaries.
(although I shouldn't say thigns about the hospitals because they did good by a beloved person of mine, thanks due to the doggist persistance of those involved and a good meant patriotism of the doctors and, if I get too sentimental, God)

[Colonâ„¢]

Unless you are saying the €2bn is a retribution tariff, the rebate is irrelevant to the discussion.

It puts the cries of thievery into perspective.

[Colonâ„¢]

Softens the psychological blow.

The psychological blow could have been softened if Cameron had warned the public beforehand this could happen. But supposedly nobody in the government or the civil service put 2 and 2 together and had the good sense this might need to be communicated.

[Dauphin]

Your logic is rather baffling. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[kentonio]

i very much doubt any the UK parties (except UKIP) will actually offer a referendum; the people might vote the 'wrong' way after all...

The Tories have backed themselves into a corner, if they don't deliver (in the unlikely event that they win the next election) then they risk hemorrhaging even more of their base to UKIP.