The Great Scottish FREEEEEEEEEDOOOMMMMM!!!!1!!! vote

[Dauphin]

.

[C0ckney]

It should be, but I wouldn't hold my breath. He also has the safety of having stepped back and left the leadership of the BT campaign to Darling.

yes i doubt he will be falling on his sword in the event. born to rule, you see.

[Bereta_Eder]

proud pap

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11094033/Scottish-independence-Nigel-Farage-visit-highlights-divide-in-Glasgow.html

3:20 onward

[Dr Strangelove]

So the UKIP favors "No"? Why? Scots aren't English.

[Bereta_Eder]

UKIP is in the rule britania tralalalala camp.
it wants the UK to leave the EU and re-establish a common strong trading partnership with its former oversees colonies. canada, australia etc
they are very british but in a sort of mouldy balls way
anything that weakens the UK (as they see it) they are against. the more subjucated, or partnered let's say people, they have, the better
I don't think they've penetrated electorally scotland that much

their "sister" party here in greece was a well known xenophobic, very conservative party (and also very cleptocratic but that doesn't tell it apart from the others)
it got destroyed after accepting to be part of the non-democratically elected EU imposed three way party and got destroyed as all the parties who did that.

it also didn't help that its leader commented on ongoing troika-greek gov talks with "it's been a hard day's night". (in english. he just didn't sing it)
that pretty much solidyfied in greek consciousness that the leader was entirely on another planet (maybe a more beautiful one)

[kentonio]

UKIP are basically all the *******s we (moderate Tory voters) used to really hate in the Tory party. Now if we can just get rid of the hardline corporate whores, we might have a decent party again.

[Hauldren Collider]

I'm not saying they're necessarily the right folks to rule Britain but from my perspective across the pond the UKIP seem like the only party in Britain that has an accurate understanding of the EU, though.


To be clear, I like the idea of the EU, just not the implementation. Free trade, free markets, currency union (if alongside a debt union) sounds great to me. What doesn't sound great is a giant undemocratic, unaccountable bureaucratic mess that likes to regulate entire industries out of existence.

[The Mad Monk]

BTW this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDRdabkBM28 sounds abyssmal. Shephards blowing bloated gutted sheep belly skin aloud. So there is an upside to independence.

[C0ckney]

ken: without the social conservatives and the corporate shills, who exactly will make up this 'decent' conservative party?

[kentonio]

I'm not saying they're necessarily the right folks to rule Britain but from my perspective across the pond the UKIP seem like the only party in Britain that has an accurate understanding of the EU, though.


To be clear, I like the idea of the EU, just not the implementation. Free trade, free markets, currency union (if alongside a debt union) sounds great to me. What doesn't sound great is a giant undemocratic, unaccountable bureaucratic mess that likes to regulate entire industries out of existence.

The UKIP version of the EU is 'evil foreigners ruling over us by diktak from Brussels!!', there really is no deeper complexity to their views than that. They want to pull out of the EU which would devastate our economy and screw over the millions of British who happen to be working across the EU right now.

[kentonio]

ken: without the social conservatives and the corporate shills, who exactly will make up this 'decent' conservative party?

The Conservative party has always been far more than those people, which is why it wins elections. Middle England is drawn to conservative policies because it's the party of economic security and stability. Once upon a time those same things appealed to working class voters too in pretty big numbers, for obvious reasons. If the Tories can ever shake off the 'screw the poor' image, they have a lot going for them. They've already gone a fair distance to shaking off the social conservatives mantle, by embracing gay marriage and various other issues.

Ironically I'm actually unlikely to vote for them this time (for the first time ever) because I think they've put ideology ahead of results in health and education in particular, but also because of a deeply unpleasant (to me) religious evangelizing by some members of the cabinet and a very blatent sense of pandering to corporate interests. The current Tory government confuses me basically, in some ways it's exactly where I wanted the party to go, yet in others it seems to have veered sharply off course. Building a cabinet of Etonians at a time of economic austerity incidentally just blows my mind, whoever thought that one up needs their head examined.

None of which changes the simple truth that a majority of people in the country want economic stability and a fair society. Traditionally one party mainly gave us one and the other party mainly gave us the other. A lot of people complained about the parties coming together like they did under Blair, but in many ways it was an obvious thing to happen. They both basically just moved towards where the majority of the country wanted to vote.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

So the UKIP favors "No"? Why? Scots aren't English.

UKIP doesn't like immigrants. If Scotland goes independent, it'll suddenly get a lot harder to control immigration into the rest of the UK.

[Imran Siddiqui]

[C0ckney]

ken: the sort of party you'd like to see (correct me if i'm wrong) is a 'middle of road' economically, socially liberal, pro-european, but without one. that's all well and good, but then you could vote for any of the main parties and get that. a lot of people do blame blair for this state of affairs, but although he was a great lover of triangulation, this is rather unfair. by getting rid of the imaginary part of labour's socialism (always far larger than the real one - this died in 80s), if anything he at least showed the working class once and for all that labour has nothing to offer them, except more of the same. in any case the idea is a very old one. blair, and even more so cameron, remind me a lot of stanley baldwin, who dreamt of creating a 'centre party', which would have borne a striking resemblance to the lib/lab/con party we have today.

i don't think i agree with you about working class tories. i don't think they're motivated by 'economic security and stability', but rather things that are far less tangible and at bottom, utterly false (and by this i mean false in the sense of them being vicariously enjoyed with no real input from the subject, not that the feelings themselves are not real): patriotism, the monarchy, and all the many and varied myths and lies out of which our national narrative is constructed; the idea that the conservatives somehow represent something larger than narrow class interest, and that they, even as members of the working class, can be part of it. however, unlike many of those with my political persuasion, i think these ideas are both real and powerful and need to be deconstructed rather than simply ridiculed.

[Alexander's Horse]

let's not forget this little disaster the last time Scotland was independent, probably cost Scotland its independence after the Kingdom went broke - sound familiar? The act of union quickly followed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme

Tiocfaidh ar la Scotland!

(our day will come)