Help me understand human nature

[Kidlicious]

I'm only focusing on europe, so I can't comment on the US (which frankly for now is a "lost case" for a just society, hopefully you'll change though)

We have serious problems like prison population. At least you admit that you aren't helping.

[Bereta_Eder]

How could I help? Adopt a child from the ghettos?

America was formed by the religious rejects of europe.
Anyone deemed too conservative simply split. This has permeated your political discourse (saying god bless "whichever country" would elicit bewildered looks here). Coupled with a misguided belief in laissez faire economics and the result is obvious.
A country deeply conservative with enormous financial gaps between its citizens. A very damnable antithesis.

Still, that you've elected someone like obama says that you might have hope. But any cultural change takes time and you need to want it first.

[Kidlicious]

How could I help? Adopt a child from the ghettos?

America was formed by the religious rejects of europe.
Anyone deemed too conservative simply split. This has permeated your political discourse (saying god bless "whichever country" would elicit bewildered looks here). Coupled with a misguided belief in laissez faire economics and the result is obvious.
A country deeply conservative with enormous financial gaps between its citizens. A very damnable antithesis.

Still, that you've elected someone like obama says that you might have hope. But any cultural change takes time and you need to want it first.

You would be living in Naziland if we didn't save you already from your own socialist tendencies.

Obama? Worst president ever. He gets cover from this generation of liberals since he is a black liberal.

[Kidlicious]

feel free to back that up with some evidence.

On phone. Search "US highest single parents.". See "Women of Grace Blog.". It's women bro. They don't lie.

[C0ckney]

On phone. Search "US highest single parents.". See "Women of Grace Blog.". It's women bro. They don't lie.

i have already posted the relevant statistics in this thread and referred you to them. see post 184.

this is why you have zero credibility.

[Kidlicious]

i have already posted the relevant statistics in this thread and referred you to them. see post 184.

this is why you have zero credibility.

According to your collectivist anarchist logic you also don't have credibility because I gave you what you asked for.

[C0ckney]

you're an idiot. i don't know why i bother with your BS.

oh and unsurprisingly, even your own source, doesn't say what you say it says. idiot.

[Kidlicious]

Did you search "US highest single parents"

[ricketyclik]

We have serious problems like prison population.

Why is that Kid?

[ricketyclik]

Did you search "US highest single parents"

I did, and the 1st hit was a wikipedia article on the subject of single parents, which linked to a 2010 article in the NYT, which had this figure with 2007 statistics:

[C0ckney]

which, it ought to be noted, covers only the OECD nations and not the whole world.

[Kidlicious]

Why is that Kid?

Fatherlessness. Although blacks, Hispanics, and poor men are more likely to end up in prison, there is a problem with middle class white men from the younger generations as well. They, too often, are totally dependent on others (live at mom's house).

Poverty is part of the problem. Poor men aren't respected by women, society, and even their children. So we should not focus on women's poverty, but on men's. We also need to pay attention to the fact that boys fail at a higher rate in school.

[Elok]

elok: as i said, the factors that have caused this are very unlikely to (or simply won't) change. are people going to give up sexual freedom? are women going give up their economic independence? will divorce become more difficult? will out of wedlock births become shameful again? will the atomisation of society be reversed (and hey i'm a collectivist anarchist and i can't really see this happening!)? if you honestly believe that any of these will, please explain why, because i just don't see it.

it's not question of whether single parent households are, or can be made, as good as two parent ones (in a general sense), but rather that single parent households are here and here to stay, and therefore social and economic policies need to recognise and deal with this social reality. i agree with you about the problem really being poverty, but disagree with you about the cause. poverty is caused by people not having enough money, and any solution will mean redirecting some of society's resources.

It seems we have a dilemma: either we'll cut this crap out, or we'll sustain it indefinitely. But you say the first is impossible, while I think it is possible but can't paint a clear picture of the details. And vice-versa for the second. On reflection, we're probably both wrong; attitudes toward sex won't change real quick, since the middle class here in America is getting gutted anyway (no clue how much of that is due to reproductive irresponsibility, etc.). Also sexual liberty is a brilliant horse for politicians to flog: it costs nothing directly, dovetails nicely with American egocentrism, and if it tends to encourage poverty and ignorance over the long term, those combine to make a wonderfully pliable populace. But we certainly won't be wasting money trying to fix the unfixable, either; we'll probably do a little something token in the way of pork, at best. I don't think all, or even most, government social services are useless, but trying to be sugar daddy to millions is only slightly more viable than getting rid of trash by launching it into space.

Might post more on social roots of poverty tomorrow. Done for now.

[C0ckney]

yes i think we have reached something of an impasse, probably due to the different perspectives from which we view this kind of thing. anyway, it's been a pleasure as always to discuss things with you.

[Elok]

Fair enough. This might be of interest to you (the author strikes something of a balance between our viewpoints).