The Impossibility of Growth

[Fake Boris]

Technological development is made possible by food surpluses.

[Felch]

All of civilization is made possible by food surplus.

[Fake Boris]

For most of history population was stable because civilization was agrarian (15-20% food surplus). As the food surplus increased, so did population.

[Felch]

Just because food supply is a limiting factor in population doesn't mean that an increase in food supply will inevitably lead to higher populations. In the modern world, the exact opposite is true.

[Fake Boris]

You're still way off base.

1) Facts show you wrong. World population even today is rapidly increasing.
2) The original point I made was about growth in FOOD CONSUMPTION, which only partially relates to population growth.

Even if you showed that food surpluses don't have a tendency to increase world population (which you haven't), you still haven't showed that food surpluses don't increase food consumption.

[N35t0r]

For most of history population was stable because civilization was agrarian (15-20% food surplus). As the food surplus increased, so did population.

And the decline of pirates caused global warming.

[Felch]

You're still way off base.

1) Facts show you wrong. World population even today is rapidly increasing.

It's growing fastest in places with less food security. Places with highest food security are seeing the least growth. That's what my spreadsheet shows.

[Fake Boris]

You still can't explain historical trends with specific data for one year.

1) Food insecurity by today's standards has nothing to do with what food insecurity has been in the past.
2) Population growth correlates with other factors like longevity (which correlates with technological improvements made possible by food surpluses)

I can tell you already. If you try to show that increases in productivity reduce resource consumption as a whole, you will fail.

[N35t0r]

Decreases in productivity also don't reduce resource consumption as a whole. What's your point?

[Fake Boris]

Decreases in productivity also don't reduce resource consumption as a whole. What's your point?

All other factors being equal, yes, they do. You can't consume more resources than you produce.

[N35t0r]

All other factors being equal, yes, they do. You can't consume more resources than you produce.

So no resources ever go to waste. Great. Thanks for playing.

[Fake Boris]

All other factors being equal.

[N35t0r]

So only under arbitrary conditions you made up. Kthksbai.

[Fake Boris]

You're the one who hasn't said anything of value yet.

What are you trying to say?

State your "conditions" and I'll comment them.

[Kidlicious]

You're still way off base.

1) Facts show you wrong. World population even today is rapidly increasing.
2) The original point I made was about growth in FOOD CONSUMPTION, which only partially relates to population growth.

Even if you showed that food surpluses don't have a tendency to increase world population (which you haven't), you still haven't showed that food surpluses don't increase food consumption.

Actually the rate of population growth is decreasing and maybe decreasing faster than it was in the recent past. The biggest danger that confronts us is deflation.