The Impossibility of Growth

[Bereta_Eder]

x-doomsdayfanatic'd

Indeed, you might say we already are.

No. Now you're doing the exact opposite

[AAAAAAAAH!]

It's obvious.

Right-wingers deny the significance of externalities like pollution. They oppose subsidies to ecological research.

They keep claiming though that we'll just explore space in time for growth.

Where's the contradiction here?

[Fake Boris]

We're not going to run out of landfill space.

Of course if you shrug off 2,000 km of plastic garbage in the Pacific you can claim whatever you want about landfill space.

[N35t0r]

If we don't leave earth, we will not get exponentially more resources. Because we'll be limited to earth's resources. Which are limited . If we leave, we will.

[The Mad Monk]

No. Now you're doing the exact opposite

How do you know what I'm doing on my nine acres?

[Bereta_Eder]

Probably trying to build a robotic woman

[Fake Boris]

Where's the contradiction here?

If you think solar power is too expensive and shouldn't get subsidies, wait until we get into space exploration. It will be more expensive and will be subsidized.

We're much closer to viable solar power than to viable space exploration.

[The Mad Monk]

Probably trying to build a robotic woman

DAMMIT.

[Bereta_Eder]

Solar power takes a pinch of insentive and it flies off because it's cheap, massively accessible. That's not a problem.
Distribution of electricity gets lost though on the cables.
Heavy duty subsidies are needed for expensive projects like wind energy parks etc
(assuming most water movement energy has been tapped)

[Sava]

It's obvious.

Right-wingers deny the significance of externalities like pollution. They oppose subsidies to ecological research.

They keep claiming though that we'll just explore space in time for growth.

But they also don't like space travel.... "blah blah its a waste"

[Sava]

Solar power takes a pinch of insentive and it flies off because it's cheap, massively accessible. That's not a problem.
Distribution of electricity gets lost though on the cables.
Heavy duty subsidies are needed for expensive projects like wind energy parks etc
(assuming most water movement energy has been tapped)

Yes. Because of this, centralized power generation combined with extensive transmission infrastructure is not the way to go. Solar is going to take over, but in the form of decentralized generation (rooftops, solar "roads", etc). Well, it should take over... because that's the cleanest, cheapest (overall), and most efficient means of ensuring access to electricity.

Electricity doesn't need to be this huge, highly regulated industry run by a small number of big corporations. The overall efficiency of the economy will increase once we move past this obsolete model.

... the same goes for telecommunications, transportation

well... pretty much everything

Big companies are only useful for the consumer goods market... and their business activities should be restricted to non-essential services...

It's important to keep in mind, that nothing in the constitution restricts the government's ability to do such things. Nobody has a right to own or operate a corporation... corporations certainly don't have a right to exist and operate. They are allowed to. It's a privilege.

[kentonio]

Still failing to understand?

The iPod is small; much more resources are consumed and turned to waste in the process of fabrication.

The waste does take space.

Not only that, but if you combine growth of consumption across the world with growth of population, then you get into some really nasty scenarios. You may be able to save 2% less resources in the new brand of ipod, but if you have twice as many people wanting them then you're still consuming increasing amounts of resources. Our current levels of consumption just aren't even remotely sustainable, especially when you get billions more people moving upto first world levels of lifestyle.

As for population growth, sooner or later we have to either find a solution that's more effective than 'send them into space' or just wait until the problem naturally solves itself through famine, war, disease etc.

[Fake Boris]

Do you have legitimate evidence to present regarding the amount of "waste" per iPod produced?

You know... to support the thing you just said.

Ok, so you need "evidence" to support that fabricating stuff takes energy. And that the object fabricated eventually turns to waste, too.

[Sava]

Ok, so you need "evidence" to support that fabricating stuff takes energy. And that the object fabricated eventually turns to waste, too.

Yes. Your seemingly bull**** statement requires proof.

Don't have any?

This is not unexpected.

[Lorizael]

If we don't leave earth, we will not get exponentially more resources. Because we'll be limited to earth's resources. Which are limited . If we leave, we will.

We can get exponentially more resources on Earth in the short-term. Once we leave Earth, we'll have exponential growth for much longer. But even that is limited. There are only so many solar systems in our galaxy, only so many galaxies in the Local Group, only so many groups in a cluster, etc.