European Election comedy

[Fake Boris]

Do you seriously think that means it isn't a problem?

I'm saying the opposite.

[Bereta_Eder]

Do you seriously think that every illegal has refugee papers?

Do you seriously think they don't or can't find a way to cross Schengen borders?

How do you think these people get here?

(Mainly) They board semi-sinking boats and they rip them apart as soon as they see the greekitalianspanish coast guard.

Under international law there is an OBLIGATION to
1. save them
2. "Process them". That means automatically ask them if they need asylum.

Oh yes, I crossed the aegean or the libyan sea and nearly drawned but it was to go to disneyland.

ALL ask for asylum.

Fine.

They get paper saying they must present in front of the judge in X days....

and the party begins.

[Bereta_Eder]

I'm saying that there is an ACTIVE policy of movement restriction in the first host country where they get the asylum papers and is thus the only country they will return to wherever they are caught in the EU. Dublin II.
One that the italian PM, very well said, we'll **** over and let them go where they will.

[Sava]

Do you seriously think that means it isn't a problem?

The lack of immigrant documentation is a failure of government. The flow of labor across international borders should not be impeded in any way (save for specific security concerns).

Personally, I think "illegal immigration" should be a slam dunk for supposedly capitalist-loving conservatives. It's hilarious that the GOP just throws away a massive potential voting demographic just because racism.

But the last thing I want to do is stop them from making a mistake.

so proceed

If the Republicans were smart, they'd be pro-immigration and pro-amnesty. But I guess hating mexicans is more important than winning elections.

[The Mad Monk]

I'm saying the opposite.

Then you're not doing a very good job of it.

[Sir Og]

Here's a thought:

unlike the FED, the ECB has no official mandate to actively take measures to diminish unemployment. It's only focused on controlling inflation.
Maybe start from there?

This is not true.

http://www.themoneyillusion.com/?p=26311

THE TREATY ON THE FUNCTIONING OF THE
EUROPEAN UNION

CHAPTER 2 MONETARY POLICY

Article 127 (ex Article 105 TEC)

“1. The primary objective of the European System of Central Banks (hereinafter referred to as ‘the ESCB’) shall be to maintain price stability. Without prejudice to the objective of price stability, the ESCB shall support the general economic policies in the Union with a view to contributing to the achievement of the objectives of the Union as laid down in Article 3 of the Treaty on European Union. The ESCB shall act in accordance with the principle of an open market economy with free competition, favouring an efficient allocation of resources, and in compliance with the principles set out in Article 119…”

And the relevant part of Article 3 of the Treaty on the EU is Section 3:
THE TREATY ON EUROPEAN UNION

TITLE I COMMON PROVISIONS

Article 3 (ex Article 2 TEU)

“3. The Union shall establish an internal market. It shall work for the sustainable development of Europe based on balanced economic growth and price stability, a highly competitive social market economy, aiming at full employment and social progress, and a high level of protection and improvement of the quality of the environment. It shall promote scientific and technological advance…”

The sad truth is that the ECB is about as competent as a depression era central bank. Actually it is far worse because depression era CBs had some valid excuses for their mistakes.

The other tragedy is that virtually everyone in Europe is clueless about the devastating effect that ECB's tight money policy is having on Europe's growth, employment and debt situation.

People only have a vague feeling that Europe isn't working and as a result are willing to give some fringe party a chance based on their inclination (nationalist, fascist, communist etc.) This of course is not going to fix the problem with the single currency and the inadequate ECB.

[Bereta_Eder]

The primary objective of the European System of Central Banks (hereinafter referred to as ‘the ESCB’) shall be to maintain price stability.

That's all they need to know Sir Og, unfortunately.
Primary objective.

[Bereta_Eder]

At least Bulgaria doesn't have to pay for Greece. There's a handful of eastern european countries that have a standard of living far below the greek one and because of this ****ED UP system, they are obliged to pay for greek debts.

[Bereta_Eder]

The other tragedy is that virtually everyone in Europe is clueless about the devastating effect that ECB's tight money policy is having on Europe's growth, employment and debt situation.

Germany only accepted to "tie" its currency with other european ones only through the stability pact. (a series of budgetary restrictions)

That's because Germany feared that the rest of Europe was too "lax" with national debt, current account surprluses etc

After stability pact was in palce, Germany accepted.

Germany entered WW2 (nazism etc) after a devastating era of uncontrolled hyper inflation.

It's their mortal fear.

There is no way of communitizing european debt.

There's no way of "printing money"

There's no way of "relaxing" debt ratios.

[Sir Og]

The ECB is not doing it's job even if you just look at price stability alone.

..
Germany entered WW2 (nazism etc) after a devastating era of uncontrolled hyper inflation.
...

Actually Nazis came to power after the deflation not after the hyperinflation. Deflation is far worse than inflation and that is where the ECB is leading Europe.
This may well lead to a break up of the EU. Just as the great depression lead to WW2.

[Bereta_Eder]

If I'm not mistaken, in the weimar republic which led to nazi germany, hyperinflation was the primary problem.


as for communist/ nazis, in the current elections, I agree.
Those with a preponderance to nazism, went there. Those with a preponderance to communism, went there.

(also apologies for the way farage is treating bulgarians and romanians, i doubt a limey will appear and say it)

[Sir Og]

If I'm not mistaken, in the weimar republic which led to nazi germany, hyperinflation was the primary problem.

The thing that directly lead to the Nazi's taking power was the start of the great depression which meant 30% unemployment in Germany + deflation + debt problems.

Germany's Weimar Republic was hit hard by the depression, as American loans to help rebuild the German economy now stopped.[71] Unemployment soared, especially in larger cities, and the political system veered toward extremism.[72] The unemployment rate reached nearly 30% in 1932, bolstering support for the Nazi (NSDAP) and Communist (KPD) parties, which both rose in the years following the crash to altogether possess a Reichstag majority following the general election in July 1932.

Sounds familiar? The current Euro crisis is of the same exact nature (tight money policy by the CB) and has the same exact consequences (rise of extremism) Fortunately the magnitude of the crisis is lower.

(also apologies for the way farage is treating bulgarians and romanians, i doubt a limey will appear and say it)

There was some thread here related to Farage's hysterics where UKers discussed the issue. Maybe I should do a poll to check if UK apolytoners think it is a good idea to restrict immigration from EU. It would be interesting to see.

[Bereta_Eder]

In any case I don't think that history repeats itself. Not even as a farce.
There are gods and demons at merkel's throat right now.
(for the greek part, there are people doing their outmost to set things straight, but you can't ignore southern europe anyway)

Do the poll, but bare in mind that farage has found bulgarians and romanians as an accomodating scapegoat, neverhteless.

[Dr Strangelove]

If Britain and France pull out then what?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well, ideally, Europe won't have a son.