Chilean activist destroys student debt papers worth $500m

[Bereta_Eder]

I don't think change comes from anywhere else than from below-> upwards.
The so called "instinct of the people" is many times infallable (and takes huge effort from the ruling class to ignore/ supress)
(assuming of course you're not dealing with a population that will return home, watch a police flick and go to bed - and then wonder why it doesn't have enough to eat)

[Jon Miller]

I agree that change requires the activity of those in the masses. However, other forces can create instability for the elite.

I am not saying that the current globalization is creating some instability, but I think it could be.

In Chile, I think the past two narratives were that people would come in with capital and be embraced by the elite (sorta, and this is the usual, I think) or that a large community would come and be insular for a generation (or so), would grow wealthy as that insular community, and then the 2nd (or 3rd) generation would be embraced by the elite.

Maybe most of the current influx is part of these narratives.

I just sort of expect they are like me (can be wrong). I am not interested in hanging out with americans (physicists on the other hand...). I don't have a strong class view of things (I have seen this with other americans/europeans here as well, they marry/create friendships without regard to class). I am not at all interested in paying 20k for a subpar education for my children.

For the latter, I have 4 options:
1. Leave within 7ish years before she is set back.
2. Send her to relatives/etc in the US (if I have 3 kids, even purchasing a house in a nice school district would be cheaper than sending them to school here)
3. Homeschool (this is sort of the insular option)
4. Press to have the system changed

If I decide to be 'part' of Chile, the only option is number 4.

JM

[Kidlicious]

exactly.
education is free

Nothing is free. They will all still pay for it, if not as tuition, in taxes.

[DinoDoc]

That's their choice to make. Not yours.

Not if they want the State to pay for their choice. What benefit is there for publicly financing "people to be educated in skills for which there is no demand in the job market"?

[Bereta_Eder]

Do you mean public benefit?
There is always a benefit to have able people following what they are inclined to do.

In personal benefit? There's probably very little. But if they want to risk being unemployed or doing a job they are not educated for, then that's their choice.

Society benefits from free health because everyone is healthy.
Society benefits from education because you don't have oafs walking the streets.

Oh. I agree that there must be sensible pre-information about job market trends etc.
And then people choose freely (assuming they have the ability to enter university. Not everyone does. And that's another problem)

edit: to make it more plain.
There's a finite number of university slots. Not everyone enters.
To enter you have to score better than others in the panhellenic university examinations.

Now, that depends on some factors such as:
how prepared you are to put your ass down and study really, really hard
how good preparation you have. *
(being smart enough to do all that is prerequisitive, of course. most are)

*and that's where the problems arise.
money does get you better prepared for these exams.
extrascholar preparation centers. You pay sums for them.
But still, an average family could pay them. And STILL it was/is unjust.
(theoretically, your free highschool is enough to prepare you)

but forget greece and its sui generis approach to nearly everything.

let's take belgium. you get your bachaloreate (you give special university oriented exams at the end of highscool) and voila. free to enter whichever discipline you choose. for free.

[kentonio]

Not if they want the State to pay for their choice. What benefit is there for publicly financing "people to be educated in skills for which there is no demand in the job market"?

The 'State' isn't a monolithic entity that gets to decide what actual people have to accept. The state is everyone, including the people you're talking about, who one way or another will end up being tax payers just like everyone else. The benefit to people getting to study for jobs that there aren't a huge demand for is that you end up with a nation of much better rounded, more mentally competent people than if you follow some medieval attitude of 'learn something useful, or go work as a labourer in the fields'.

It's also worth mentioning that pretty much every degree can lead to direct employment, the problem is usually just the number of people taking certain degrees in comparison to the number of available roles. Under your preferred system, that would mean that only people with money would ever be able to enter those professions and the nation would lose a huge potential source of talent just because those roles aren't hugely mainstream.

[Sava]

No. The "State" is a big bad boogeyman made up of nazis, socialists, and muslims.... designed to destroy real (white) americans' freedoms... by making them pay the same taxes as everyone else.

[Kidlicious]

[Felch]

Society benefits from education because you don't have oafs walking the streets.

You're assuming these aren't liberal arts majors.

[AAAAAAAAH!]

i will say though, that in general terms, south american elites are very entrenched, although at the same time flexible, being able to admit new members in response to changing circumstances. this means for example, that europeans and americans, with the right amount of money and/or education can enter the elite, but this changes nothing for the ordinary people in chile or brasil etc.

You make it sound like the "elite" is some sort of cabal that decides who gets to join, instead of just being people who happen to be rich.

[Sava]

You're assuming these aren't liberal arts majors.

For anything other than a career in sciences, it doesn't matter... especially if we're talking about some button-pushing corporate job.

If anything, a liberal arts major will be better with writing and communication skills.

Oh but nerds with questionable communication skills... how they love to bash those liberal arts majors...

(not directly referring to you, but feel free to include yourself if you wish)

[Kidlicious]

Oaf> liberal arts major

[Bereta_Eder]

what good is knowing how to screw a screw if you're mangele?
school is supposed to teach you more things than being a useful clog in the machine

[Kidlicious]

what good is knowing how to screw a screw if you're mangele?
school is supposed to teach you more things than being a useful clog in the machine

I actually have a BA. I'm trying to unlearn all that crap.

[DinoDoc]

what good is knowing how to screw a screw if you're mangele?

Speak English!