Chilean activist destroys student debt papers worth $500m

[Fake Boris]

Reasoned debate is the foundation of democracy and I'd say it's produced incredible results thus far.

"Democracy" and capitalism are the outcome of violent revolutions.

[Lorizael]

In some cases.

[Fake Boris]

You're free to get a degree in those things, you just can't expect other people to ****ing pay for it.

I agree. Let's have taxpayer's opt-out for education and the military and see what happens.

[DinoDoc]

It's almost like.... there's this thing called freedom

I've nothing against people having useless degrees. I just feel they should pay for useless degrees on their own dime.

[Geronimo]

Yes. Yes, I can. Because it's in society's best interest for people to be educated. As a small business owner, I want my customers to have disposable income.

Obviously it is debatable whether it is in society's best interest for people to be educated in skills for which there is no demand in the job market. Which, if I'm not mistaken was the point being raised by DD and Reg to which you were responding.

[Dinner]

Yes, you can. The state should pay for everyone's education through at least a four year degree. Or at least they should pay, say, the 1st $50,000 of it. Maybe add a bit more if people want to major in useful disciplines.

[Sava]

I've nothing against people having useless degrees. I just feel they should pay for useless degrees on their own dime.

They do pay for their degree. They pay taxes. That's why taxes exist.

Just because you are stuck in the 18th century, politically, doesn't mean the rest of us are.

The conservative "pay for everything as you go" model just doesn't work. Sorry.

[Jon Miller]

Yes, you can. The state should pay for everyone's education through at least a four year degree. Or at least they should pay, say, the 1st $50,000 of it. Maybe add a bit more if people want to major in useful disciplines.

That is actually similar to how it is in Sweden.

The students are supported, but only for the first ~5 years or something. After that they are on their own.

JM

[Jon Miller]

this is a very important point. it's all about inequality and a small elite having and retaining control of a country's resources; the best education, the best jobs, control of the government and civil service etc. this has always been the problem in south america, and continues to be so.

the masses, as you put it, have been sold a dream of social and economic advance through expensive university education, which of course has not come true, because of the way the system is set up by the elite to perpetuate their control. thus, i think that actions like this are important, because they expose this grotesque farce for what it is and hopefully will encourage people to think about the real reasons for their predicament.

This worked *for the 'Elite'* when countries were isolated.

Now it doesn't, even for the 'elite'. Chilean 'elite' are having to compete with American/European/etc 'masses' and are lacking....

JM
(It is possible to get a decent to very good salary (compared to US professor salaries) here in Chile... but those getting the salaries are not Chilean for the most part, and if they are Chilean they graduated from the US elite institutions not Chilean elite institutions.)

[C0ckney]

"Democracy" and capitalism are the outcome of violent revolutions.

well yes, and no. capitalism is the result of a historical process which stems from private land ownership, although of course that itself was imposed through force.

[C0ckney]

This worked *for the 'Elite'* when countries were isolated.

Now it doesn't, even for the 'elite'. Chilean 'elite' are having to compete with American/European/etc 'masses' and are lacking....

JM

i want to write a long response to this, but so as to make sure i haven't misunderstood your point, could you explain in more detail what you mean here.

[Jon Miller]

Basically, in Chile many of the good jobs (elite jobs) go to 'expats' from the US/Europe. These are not necessarily the 'elite' of those countries (the upper class in europe/america, although they are 'elite' by some other measures (smart, good degrees)).

So I am thinking that the system is breaking for the elites in Chile, that they are now competing with those outside of Chile for the elite positions and in general I don't think they can compete. They maybe don't realize it, or there are enough new jobs that they still are in the 'elite' side of the system, but a lot of lower class people from europe/america are taking the more 'elite' positions.

I know that some of the high income americans don't fit in class wise to the places that their positions would afford them.

Additionally, many of the new companies/jobs/etc (innovation) comes from 'normal people' from america/europe and not from Chilean elite (or masses).

Even as far as places for students in this institution, it is being opened to people in all of Latin America and even europe and if more people from europe (or america) applied, fewer Chileans would be accepted.

JM

[Lorizael]

Sounds to me like you're saying you're part of the problem, JM.

[Jon Miller]

Right now there is no Chilean who can do what I do. This will hopefully be different in 10 years (what I am working towards, although my persepctive doctoral student is Columbian and not Chilean).

Until I learn spanish I can't really help with the 1-12. Once I can give public lectures in Spanish I will do so.

JM

[Jon Miller]

I don't think the solution is to make it a class based AA. The solution is to fix 1-12, and to decrease inequality (probably fixing 1-12 will take more money, 7% is really low, so taxes should increase).

JM