downsizing US military

[PLATO]

Exactly, and that sort of thinking will do them as much good as it did France.

Nobody wants to exterminate Russia anymore. There's no reason at all to view the west with so much hostility. It's a case of evil men stirring up hatred against foreign nations. Putin and his brood are monsters.

Putin is using the age old trick of whipping his population into a paranoid nationalistic fevor to justify military industrial spending to his cronies and draconian laws.

Putin: "The western gays will screw your sons! We must have a law!"
Putin: "The western agents are stifiling our economy! We must have more control!"
Putin: "The western agents are subverting the elected govenors of the provinces. We must appoint them from Moscow!"
Putin: "The western industries want Georgia to build a pipeline we can't control. We must attack Georgia!"

etc...etc...etc...

Csar Putin I. Great. Maybe in a few more hundred years, Russia will take another step forward.

[Sava]

Putin is using the age old trick of whipping his population into a paranoid nationalistic fevor to justify military industrial spending to his cronies and draconian laws.

Putin: "The western gays will screw your sons! We must have a law!"
Putin: "The western agents are stifiling our economy! We must have more control!"
Putin: "The western agents are subverting the elected govenors of the provinces. We must appoint them from Moscow!"
Putin: "The western industries want Georgia to build a pipeline we can't control. We must attack Georgia!"

etc...etc...etc...

Csar Putin I. Great. Maybe in a few more hundred years, Russia will take another step forward.

and they buy it hook, line, and sinker

Russians are stupid

[PLATO]

I am not.

Still living in a wired world? Interesting....

[Sava]

Still living in a wired world? Interesting....

I need consistent speed and gigabit connection with all other PC's on the network.

Wireless internet is convenient and useful for using devices like smartphones and tablets. But for serious downloading and gaming, wired connection is the only way to go... and it will always be this way.

[notyoueither]

They are not learning from experience if they're trying to relive the heyday of the Soviet Union, and they are delusional for thinking that the territory of Ukraine and Georgia is somehow theirs, and they are failing to understand the cause-effect relationship between trying to exert hegemony over their neighbors and their neighbors trying to join NATO.

Russia's foreign policy has always been to treat allies and neighbors like a wife: the more you beat her the more she'll love you. In this regard they have DEFINITELY not learned from experience.

Kennedy was willing to go over the brink over Cuba. I'm thinking the Russians feel similar over NATO in Ukraine at this time.

Jesus ****ing Christ, we all understand them, you're not special. It's not like you're the only person on this site who knows a little something about Russian history. The Russian experience was no worse than the Polish experience, but the Poles learned the right lesson. Poland learned to embrace democracy and the security of befriending the west. Russia is just a nation gripped with an unhealthy paranoia. Stop making excuses for them, their behavior is inexcusable.

You're not demonstrating much capacity to understand them or their situation. They aren't Poles. They've been able to successfully defend themselves against some of the worst the world could throw at them.

Exactly, and that sort of thinking will do them as much good as it did France.

Nobody wants to exterminate Russia anymore. There's no reason at all to view the west with so much hostility. It's a case of evil men stirring up hatred against foreign nations. Putin and his brood are monsters.

Says you. Ivan sees things differently, as do the Chinese and others.

[PLATO]

Kennedy was willing to go over the brink over Cuba. I'm thinking the Russians feel similar over NATO in Ukraine at this time.

Yes because Obama was so adamant about destroying them when he was banging his shoe at the UN. (Nice 50 year old thinking there!)

You're not demonstrating much capacity to understand them or their situation. They aren't Poles. They've been able to successfully defend themselves against some of the worst the world could throw at them.

This is not the point he was trying to make....

Says you. Ivan sees things differently, as do the Chinese and others.

Which is why the Chinese restated their position that Ukrainian Boarders should be respected and reminded the world about their policy on non-interference in the affairs of other countries?

Do you really believe that the Chinese military spending increases are just about the U.S. and everything is just cool on their Russian Boarder?

[notyoueither]

This is not the point he was trying to make....

He's throwing a hissy fit because the world is not unfolding the way he expects it should and showing zero understanding of how the world works. His point that Putin and Russians are not acting like he'd want them to is nice, but useless.

Which is why the Chinese restated their position that Ukrainian Boarders should be respected and reminded the world about their policy on non-interference in the affairs of other countries?

Do you really believe that the Chinese military spending increases are just about the U.S. and everything is just cool on their Russian Boarder?

China has a rational foreign policy, so does Russia. You think it natural that the Chinese would worry about Russia. Why would it not be natural for Russia to still be concerned about NATO?

[PLATO]

China has a rational foreign policy, so does Russia. You think it natural that the Chinese would worry about Russia. Why would it not be natural for Russia to still be concerned about NATO?

Rational foriegn policy? So threatening to steal territory from nearly all of your neighbors is rational in your mind?

Also, China should be worried about Russia. Russia has time and again demonstrated a willingness to invade its neighbors on false pretence. NATO, on the other hand is a defensive alliance. There is nothing in the NATO treaty about initiating Offensive operations against anyone.

It may be true that Russia used to have justified fears on being invaded, but that really doesn't have any bearing on today's geopolitical environment. Do YOU believe that NATO has a secret desire to invade Russia? Surely not....

[molly bloom]

Apparently Albert believes your comprehension has improved.

That's so funny. Want to give us your definitions of heir apparent or fief ? They had to be explained to you in detail several times, as you seemed to prefer your own unique interpretations of the English language- and English and European history too, of course.

[molly bloom]

But when your army crushed, your cities bombed, there is no hope at all.

Do tell us about the glorious role Russia played in the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and Tokyo.

And the defeat of Japan in Burma.

[DinoDoc]

Rational foriegn policy? So threatening to steal territory from nearly all of your neighbors is rational in your mind?

Yes. Empire building is entirely rational if the territory you take has something you want and you have the power to enforce your claims.

[Guynemer]

Also, China's policy of respecting national sovereignty and borders doesn't exactly extend to Taiwan; I wager Russia sees the Crimea are roughly analogous.

[notyoueither]

Rational foriegn policy? So threatening to steal territory from nearly all of your neighbors is rational in your mind?

Also, China should be worried about Russia. Russia has time and again demonstrated a willingness to invade its neighbors on false pretence. NATO, on the other hand is a defensive alliance. There is nothing in the NATO treaty about initiating Offensive operations against anyone.

I don't think many Russians would share your views of NATO as a benign organisation when they consider Yugoslavia, Libya and perhaps even Afghanistan. Then there's the actions of the largest parts of NATO (US, UK) in Iraq.

It may be true that Russia used to have justified fears on being invaded, but that really doesn't have any bearing on today's geopolitical environment. Do YOU believe that NATO has a secret desire to invade Russia? Surely not....

It doesn't matter what I believe, the point is what Ivan believes.

Also, things change. Friends can become enemies and enemies can become friends. People who live in countries with long, bloody histories likely keep that in mind more than others. Kiev to Moscow is pretty damn close by Russian standards. It also brings possible anti-missile sites a lot closer to Russian strategic forces and makes them much more effective potentially.

[PLATO]

I don't think many Russians would share your views of NATO as a benign organisation when they consider Yugoslavia, Libya and perhaps even Afghanistan. Then there's the actions of the largest parts of NATO (US, UK) in Iraq.



It doesn't matter what I believe, the point is what Ivan believes.

Also, things change. Friends can become enemies and enemies can become friends. People who live in countries with long, bloody histories likely keep that in mind more than others. Kiev to Moscow is pretty damn close by Russian standards. It also brings possible anti-missile sites a lot closer to Russian strategic forces and makes them much more effective potentially.

Everything you say here is based on Russian paranoia. The point everyone is trying to get across to you is that there is no longer a need for that paranoia. Obviously, the Russians still have it...otherwise they probably wouldn't be invading countries. The arguments you make are for how the Russians feel, but they do not address that the Russians SHOULD feel this way...and the answer why is simple. They shouldn't.

The problem is that Russian paranoia could easily turn into a self fulfilling prophecy. If they keep doing what they are doing, at some point the west will stop them. the cost of this will be tremendous and the blood will squarely be on poor Ivan's paranoid head.

[Hauldren Collider]

Dr. Who sucks and is terrible.

QFT