Presidential Address

[PLATO]

We do have the benefit of looking at Nixon in the full view of history. Obama may or may not be worse...only time will tell. At the very least, he is not as stupid about how he goes about things as Nixon was.

[Sava]

Obama, as far as we know, didn't order the RNC to be burgled.

[notyoueither]

No, he's simply defending the mass surveillance of everyone, everywhere. Without warrant. That's you too, Sava, and all other Mercans.

[Aeson]

We do have the benefit of looking at Nixon in the full view of history. Obama may or may not be worse...only time will tell. At the very least, he is not as stupid about how he goes about things as Nixon was.

For all we know he could be worse than Hitler!

[Kidlicious]

He really does demonstrate a lack of principles and a belief that ends justify means. So comparisons to Nixon are fair. Let's not do the godwin thing.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You don't think comparisons to Nixon aren't in some ways akin to Godwining?

[Kidlicious]

You don't think comparisons to Nixon aren't in some ways akin to Godwining?

Maybe you vilify Nixon more than I do. I never even thought he was that bad when I was on the Left.

[Patroklos]

We do have the benefit of looking at Nixon in the full view of history. Obama may or may not be worse...only time will tell. At the very least, he is not as stupid about how he goes about things as Nixon was.

Exactly. Note I did not say Obama is criminal, I said he was authoritarian, secretive and imperial and data collection on every American and plus some. Nixon's burglary is petty and amateur in comparison on those metrics.

[Sava]

No, he's simply defending the mass surveillance of everyone, everywhere. Without warrant. That's you too, Sava, and all other Mercans.

Let's be real here.

To say, "mass surveillance" implies that there is an actual human observing everything. There isn't. There's just a giant database somewhere that is logging stuff in case law enforcement needs to use it.

The paranoia surrounding this discussion is getting to be a bit much. If you are so scared that you could be observed, don't use technology. It's as simple as that.

I can be paranoid as **** at times. But not even this crap bothers me.

Sure, the government ought to be on a leash when it comes to what it can do. You'll get no argument from me. But if Obama, or anyone else, wanted to use SIGINT for nefarious purposes, they could.

And if I were to judge the American government by some sort of evil genius standard... I'd probably conclude they were really incompetent at being evil.

[Sava]

Exactly. Note I did not say Obama is criminal, I said he was authoritarian, secretive and imperial and data collection on every American and plus some. Nixon's burglary is petty and amateur in comparison on those metrics.

You are such an idiot.

These programs existed before Obama. He didn't invent them.

But whatever. Nothing I say will make you not an idiot. So continue.

[Sava]

The whole "Obama is authoritarian" thing is hilarious. I thought he was a weak liberal who wants to surrender America... and apologize for America... and blah blah blah

get a ****ing clue you morons

[Patroklos]

Let it out Sava, I realize your disappointment and anger at his betrayal most be overwhelming

[DaShi]

Christ, what an ass!

[DinoDoc]

Christ, what an ass!

[Sava]