The Fate of Aborted Fetuses

[Ban Kenobi]

What I'm saying is that there's no proof of your physical nature either because there is no proof that you exist.

Of course I exist or else I wouldn't be talking about whether I exist.

If I'm not a self what does it matter if I have individual rights or not? Why aren't the universal needs the only concern? And why punish me if I'm not an individual? You are just punishing the universe. What's the point of that?

People have individual rights because they experience suffering and happiness as individuals, regardless of what the nature of their decisions may be.

[Dr Strangelove]

What exactly would a soul that has never experienced light, has experienced sound only as a muffled flow of liquids, has experienced sensation only as being immersed in a tepid bsth save the occassional touch its own skin, has no sense of self or form or action be like?

[Guynemer]

If Anathem is too obtuse or time-consuming for you, at least read The Diamond Age. I've read those two, Crypto, Reamde and Snow Crash, and Diamond Age is definitely my favorite. Full of delightfully goofy Stephensonian digressions and cyber/steampunk whimsy.

I prefer The Baroque Cycle, Snow Crash, and Reamde, in no particular order. But they are all delightful.

[Elok]

I prefer The Baroque Cycle, Snow Crash, and Reamde, in no particular order. But they are all delightful.

Baroque Cycle isn't available at my library, and I never get around to inter-library loan. Especially since I'd have to arrange for loans one at a time--I can't count on getting all three done in a three-week period with no renewals. Grr.

[Kidlicious]

Of course God exists or else I wouldn't be talking about whether I exist.

Well put my friend

People have individual rights because they experience suffering and happiness as individuals, regardless of what the nature of their decisions may be.

Not if they aren't individuals. How do you know that you don't just believe in the concept of selfhood because yer mommy told you you were a self? What if she conditioned you to believe that you weren't a self?

[Ban Kenobi]

Well put my friend

Are you saying I'm God?

Well put my friend.

Not if they aren't individuals. How do you know that you don't just believe in the concept of selfhood because yer mommy told you you were a self? What if she conditioned you to believe that you weren't a self?

I know I exist. I couldn't know this if I weren't a self. Why should I suspect other people don't know they exist?

[Kidlicious]

I know I exist. I couldn't know this if I weren't a self. Why should I suspect other people don't know they exist?

You obviously believe that sentience proves selfhood, so when there are sentient computers will they have individual rights?

[Ban Kenobi]

You obviously believe that sentience proves selfhood, so when there are sentient computers will they have individual rights?

Yes. Whether society will recognize those rights, I can't say.

[Kidlicious]

Yes. Whether society will recognize those rights, I can't say.

What's the point? Like I say, a computer is just a clump of matter. So what if it has sentience?

[Ban Kenobi]

What's the point? Like I say, a computer is just a clump of matter. So what if it has sentience?

If it is sentient it may experience happiness or suffering, and I have compassion for others and do not want them to suffer. You might disagree. For all I know you could be a psychopath who only cares about himself.

[Kidlicious]

If it is sentient it may experience happiness or suffering, and I have compassion for others and do not want them to suffer. You might disagree. For all I know you could be a psychopath who only cares about himself.

The argument for individual rights isn't about eliminating suffering. That's a utilitarian argument. An argument for individual rights is that an individual can not be harmed by another individual. If we consider computers individuals than we have to allow harm to come to human beings to protect the rights of the computer.

[Ban Kenobi]

The argument for individual rights isn't about eliminating suffering. That's a utilitarian argument. An argument for individual rights is that an individual can not be harmed by another individual. If we consider computers individuals than we have to allow harm to come to human beings to protect the rights of the computer.

Not allowing harm isn't about eliminating suffering...?

[Kidlicious]

Not allowing harm isn't about eliminating suffering...?

I see you are one of those "throw the fat man in front of a train to save the passengers" guys. So should we throw the fat man in front of the train to save the sentient computers? Interesting POV

[Ban Kenobi]

I see you are one of those "throw the fat man in front of a train to save the passengers" guys. So should we throw the fat man in front of the train to save the sentient computers? Interesting POV

Not necessarily, since I wouldn't sacrifice a person to save a dog but dogs are sentient. I also don't think it acceptable for people to torture dogs, so in some sense they have rights.

[Kidlicious]

Not necessarily, since I wouldn't sacrifice a person to save a dog but dogs are sentient. I also don't think it acceptable for people to torture dogs, so in some sense they have rights.

But dogs and computers are selfs according to you. So what exactly is good about being a self, just being happy and not sufferring?