Guess what time it is? It's GOP voter suppression time!

[Imran Siddiqui]

I tend to lean towards the Christian viewpoint on these things, so naturally you wouldn't understand.

BURN!!

[MRT144]

How dare the government take care of its people to a base minimum.

[Hauldren Collider]

I haven't read Ben's posts and I am sure they are horrid, but you should be aware that the Republican position is not to eliminate welfare and other entitlements but to cut them so that they we aren't running a deficit.

[kentonio]

I haven't read Ben's posts and I am sure they are horrid, but you should be aware that the Republican position is not to eliminate welfare and other entitlements but to cut them so that they we aren't running a deficit.

That's because you see it as a simple cost that can be saved without looking at the entire level of costs that it saves. If you don't ensure that people have a baseline of social stability then all sorts of horrid things happen. People without health insurance have to increasingly use emergency room care which is wildly inefficient and costs everyone else far more money. People without food and shelter put a huge drain on charities and contribute to big increases in crime because people will not willingly go homeless or starve. People without homes or basic income also find it far, far harder to then find jobs because they have no resources to travel or maintain basic standards of presentation etc. You end up with a desperate underclass who undermine social cohesion and fuel resentment, crime and social inequality.

You spent an awful lot of money on an awful lot of things. Targeting welfare and 'entitlements' is a great way of ensuring that you'll be spending much more money later desperately trying to patch up the damage you're causing through shortsightedness.

[kentonio]

I haven't read Ben's posts and I am sure they are horrid, but you should be aware that the Republican position is not to eliminate welfare and other entitlements but to cut them so that they we aren't running a deficit.

That's because you see it as a simple cost that can be saved without looking at the entire level of costs that it saves. If you don't ensure that people have a baseline of social stability then all sorts of horrid things happen. People without health insurance have to increasingly use emergency room care which is wildly inefficient and costs everyone else far more money. People without food and shelter put a huge drain on charities and contribute to big increases in crime because people will not willingly go homeless or starve. People without homes or basic income also find it far, far harder to then find jobs because they have no resources to travel or maintain basic standards of presentation etc. You end up with a desperate underclass who undermine social cohesion and fuel resentment, crime and social inequality.

You spent an awful lot of money on an awful lot of things. Targeting welfare and 'entitlements' is a great way of ensuring that you'll be spending much more money later desperately trying to patch up the damage you're causing through shortsightedness.

[PLATO]

That's because you see it as a simple cost that can be saved without looking at the entire level of costs that it saves. If you don't ensure that people have a baseline of social stability then all sorts of horrid things happen. People without health insurance have to increasingly use emergency room care which is wildly inefficient and costs everyone else far more money. People without food and shelter put a huge drain on charities and contribute to big increases in crime because people will not willingly go homeless or starve. People without homes or basic income also find it far, far harder to then find jobs because they have no resources to travel or maintain basic standards of presentation etc. You end up with a desperate underclass who undermine social cohesion and fuel resentment, crime and social inequality.

You spent an awful lot of money on an awful lot of things. Targeting welfare and 'entitlements' is a great way of ensuring that you'll be spending much more money later desperately trying to patch up the damage you're causing through shortsightedness.

While all this is true, the real problem is that there is no program or incentive to encourage people to either get off of temporary entitlements or to prepare for to share more of the burden for longer term entitlements.

Additionally, there are those receiving social security who do not need it. If we are going to say that the program is to ensure security in a social sense, then a means test would be in order. At that point you have effectively raised the tax rate on people who could afford it (i.e. no gtd of social security but still paying the ss tax). This may lower the std of living of some, but these are people who can still maintain a socially secure lifestyle because they have exceeded a threshold that we set to ensure that security in society is maintained.

The truth is that the type of deficit spending we are incurring cannot be maintained. Just an example...gov't bonds have gone up a full 1,25 percentage points. That, if translated into interest expense on a $17 trillion is an additional $212.5 billion per year (of course it doesn't work that way, but you get the jist of the point).

Some type of reform to entitlements or taxes is inevitable. It is uncertain if the American people would support the type of tax increases needed to keep from running a deficit at this point.

It makes far more sense to spend on ways to help the "downtrodden" find opportunities and to reform the entitlement system so that it actually serves its actual purpose.

[MRT144]

I haven't read Ben's posts and I am sure they are horrid, but you should be aware that the Republican position is not to eliminate welfare and other entitlements but to cut them so that they we aren't running a deficit.

There is cognitive dissonance since they want to turn the deficit entirely on the back of welfare and other entitlements which lo and behold would result in eliminating them. Even if the intent isnt there, the execution results in the same.