Helen Thomas passes.

[Ming]

It's real simple for the politicians in the US.

The Jewish community votes and provides financial support to candidates in a much greater fashion than the Muslim community.
Politicians can afford to piss off the Muslims, but not the Jewish community.

[Felch]

really though the great jewish conspiracy isn't a very attractive theory to explain america's and american's views. if zionist jews really controlled politics and public opinion in america, surely they'd have little difficulty in doing the same in other places. yet views on israel are markedly different in other countries. so again we come back to the way the issue is framed by the media, and politicians. i'm genuinely curious as to why this is.

It's not Hollywood, it's the churches. I bet if you looked at the Americans who support Israel, you'd find that they attend churches far more regularly than those who support the Palestinians. And when they're in church, they hear about Israel, over and over, and everything they here is pro-Israel. That's why Americans are inclined to accept its legitimacy, and to regard its existence as divinely ordained. The fact that many anti-Zionist groups support the destruction of the state of Israel strikes religious Americans as an affront to God and His Chosen People. That also goes a long way towards explaining pro-Israeli sentiment in sub-Saharan Africa, and the antipathy that post religious Europeans feel.

So in a sense it is the Jewish media, just not the modern media that you're thinking of.

[kentonio]

So in a sense it is the Jewish media, just not the modern media that you're thinking of.

Interesting. Do many of the actual media outlets run stories that are anti-Israel though, or at least balanced?

[DinoDoc]

that would actually make more sense than the laughable reasons you've presented thus far. you provide an excellent example of my point. despite having no connection with israel, you are prepared to embarrass yourself by posting ridiculous and obviously false justifications in its defence. why?

Reference to the views of Helen Thomas?

[DinoDoc]

Precisely.

She pissed off Republicans, Democrats and anyone else who held power and potentially abused it. That's what *good* journalists do — they ask the hard questions, the ones that might hurt somebody's feelings, the ones that, if answered honestly, help bring light to the dark places.

In the twilight of her life, she said some things that did cast a cloud over herself. Throw the first stone if you've never done anything like that in your life — I expect there will be no takers.

The death of Helen Thomas is a blow to good journalism everywhere, and folks who genuinely believe in freedom ought to be cognizant of that fact. Yes, guns, bombs and soldiers have their role in keeping you free, but so do the folks who wield pens and ask tough questions.

We get it. She's the Mel Gibson of journalism.

[C0ckney]

Reference to the views of Helen Thomas?

difficulty reading simple sentences?

[DinoDoc]

difficulty reading simple sentences?

You asked why he made such a stupid statement. I gave the probable reason. The views of the subject of this thread.

[C0ckney]

It's not Hollywood, it's the churches. I bet if you looked at the Americans who support Israel, you'd find that they attend churches far more regularly than those who support the Palestinians. And when they're in church, they hear about Israel, over and over, and everything they here is pro-Israel. That's why Americans are inclined to accept its legitimacy, and to regard its existence as divinely ordained. The fact that many anti-Zionist groups support the destruction of the state of Israel strikes religious Americans as an affront to God and His Chosen People. That also goes a long way towards explaining pro-Israeli sentiment in sub-Saharan Africa, and the antipathy that post religious Europeans feel.

So in a sense it is the Jewish media, just not the modern media that you're thinking of.

that seems reasonable. i'd say that european (and indeed ROTW) views are less coloured by religious dogma.

[C0ckney]

You asked why he made such a stupid statement. I gave the probable reason. The views of the subject of this thread.

he was responding to a post of mine which made no reference to helen thomas. the 'reasons' he gave are in posts 54 and 59.

[Wezil]

edit: x-post - replying to wezil.

Answered by others while I took a nap.

[Felch]

Interesting. Do many of the actual media outlets run stories that are anti-Israel though, or at least balanced?

Yeah, obviously. This thread is about Helen Thomas after all.

[kentonio]

Yeah, obviously. This thread is about Helen Thomas after all.

Which TV networks are reliably anti-Israel?

[Colon™]

It's not Hollywood, it's the churches. I bet if you looked at the Americans who support Israel, you'd find that they attend churches far more regularly than those who support the Palestinians. And when they're in church, they hear about Israel, over and over, and everything they here is pro-Israel. That's why Americans are inclined to accept its legitimacy, and to regard its existence as divinely ordained. The fact that many anti-Zionist groups support the destruction of the state of Israel strikes religious Americans as an affront to God and His Chosen People. That also goes a long way towards explaining pro-Israeli sentiment in sub-Saharan Africa, and the antipathy that post religious Europeans feel.

So in a sense it is the Jewish media, just not the modern media that you're thinking of.

If wonder if even the Jews themselves are less reliably pro-Israel than Evangelical America. You got J Street, but also a lot of orthodox Jews that don't even recognize Israel.

[notyoueither]

that's just not true. here are some numbers for public support, from the jpost

as you can see, canada and the US are quite far apart.

interestingly israel seems to enjoy considerable support in sub-saharan africa.

That's strange given that the current government is hugely pro-Israel and their policies on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have the support of half the population.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/nearly-half-canadians-say-ottawas-policy-on-israeli-palestinian-conflict-strikes-right-balance/article554580/

"Almost half of Canadians surveyed (48 per cent) say they believe the federal government’s policy in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict “strikes the right balance,” according to a new Focus Canada survey conducted by the Environics Research Group."
Their policy boils down to, essentially, Israel is right.

BTW, the BBC poll asks if the influence of the country is mainly positive or negative, not whether people support the country. I am pretty supportive of Israel, but if asked that question I'd likely say that Israel's influence has been mainly negative. Would it be better if the Jewish State were in Northern Greenland? Yes. Does it matter? No. Israel is where it is and we'll all have to figure out how to make things work in a way that does not involve millions of Jewish people 'going home.'

i take your point.

why do you think the government is preapred to be so out of step with public opinion on this issue (besides the vast jewish conspiracy of course...)?

The answer is that they are not out of step with public opinion.

that makes sense for canada, and i suppose that israel/palestine isn't that important for most voters, so the government can afford to go against public opinion to please its base. however, i'm not so sure that it explains america. i mean, in canada you say that the support for israel is something that one party does, yet in the US both parties seem to support israel 100%. i suppose it is an important issue for some in both parties (jews for the democrats, fundamentalist christians for the republicans) and that might go so way to explaining it. i'm not sure it explains the level of support for israel among those who are neither jews or fundamentalist christians.

edit: x-post - replying to wezil.

Support for Israel would also be pretty high among Liberals, just not as strident and unyielding as the Conservatives. The NDP could be seen as the anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian party if there is one.

[aubreelewis]

Oh and real classy of you celebrating the death of not only another human being, but a woman who fought tooth and nail her entire career to bring transparency to politics