The Zimmerman Trial

[Lorizael]

Wiglawyer

[PLATO]

The Jew Lorizael is actually incorrect -- the scenario as described by PLATO would make Zimmerman guilty of either 2nd degree murder or manslaughter. the test is whether Martin's fear that Zimmerman is going to put him at risk of great bodily injury is reasonable. Since PLATO assumes this fear is reasonable, Trayvon is justified in using deadly force to neutralize Zimmerman. As long as Trayvon is only using this force while his fear of Zimmerman remains reasonable any attempt by Zimmerman to claim "self-defense" just does not work. you cannot start a fight, then stop for a split second and shoot the other guy as he is still in the process of defending himself, and claim self defense in florida or most anywhere...

It is still very easy to imagine a scenario in which neither the white spaniard vigilante george zimmerman nor the cute well-mannered African-American toddler with skittles committed a crime, but for some reason not even a Jew and a nerd named after a famous logician can figure it out, so let me help you out here. WHAT IF BOTH OF THEM SIMULTANEOUSLY PUT ONE ANOTHER IN IMMINENT REASONABLE FEAR OF DEATH?

You make some excellent points my friend. However, If Martin FELT justified, but was NOT actually justified, then wouldn't Zimmerman have the same right to use deadly force when attacked? Hmmmmm??????

[DaShi]

Florida law is ****ed up:

(CNN) -- Saying he had no discretion under state law, a judge sentenced a Jacksonville, Florida, woman to 20 years in prison Friday for firing a warning shot in an effort to scare off her abusive husband.
Marissa Alexander unsuccessfully tried to use Florida's controversial "stand your ground" law to derail the prosecution, but a jury in March convicted her of aggravated assault after just 12 minutes of deliberation.
The case, which was prosecuted by the same state attorney who is handling the Trayvon Martin case, has gained the attention of civil rights leaders who say the African-American woman was persecuted because of her race.
After the sentencing, Rep. Corrine Brown confronted State Attorney Angela Corey in the hallway, accusing her of being overzealous, according to video from CNN affiliate WJXT.
"There is no justification for 20 years," Brown told Corey during an exchange frequently interrupted by onlookers. "All the community was asking for was mercy and justice," she said.
Corey said she had offered Alexander a plea bargain that would have resulted in a three-year prison sentence, but Alexander chose to take the case to a jury trial, where a conviction would carry a mandatory sentence under a Florida law known as "10-20-life."
'Stand your ground' plea rejected
The law mandates increased penalties for some felonies, including aggravated assault, in which a gun is carried or used.
Corey said the case deserved to be prosecuted because Alexander fired in the direction of a room where two children were standing.
Alexander said she was attempting to flee her husband, Rico Gray, on August 1, 2010, when she picked up a handgun and fired a shot into a wall.
She said her husband had read cell phone text messages that she had written to her ex-husband, got angry and tried to strangle her.
She said she escaped and ran to the garage, intending to drive away. But, she said, she forgot her keys, so she picked up her gun and went back into the house. She said her husband threatened to kill her, so she fired one shot.
"I believe when he threatened to kill me, that's what he was absolutely going to do," she said. "That's what he intended to do. Had I not discharged my weapon at that point, I would not be here."
Alexander's attorneys tried to use the state law that allows people to use potentially deadly force anywhere they feel reasonably threatened with serious harm or death.
But a previous judge in the case rejected the request, saying Alexander's decision to go back into the house was not consistent with someone in fear for her safety, according to the Florida Times Union newspaper.
A jury convicted Alexander in March and Judge James Daniel denied her request for a new trial in April.
Daniel handed down the sentence Friday after an emotional sentencing hearing during which Alexander's parents, 11-year-old daughter and pastor spoke on her behalf.
Several people had to be escorted from the courtroom after breaking out singing and chanting about a perceived lack of justice in the case, but Daniel made a point to say that he had no choice under state law.
"Under the state's 10-20-life law, a conviction for aggravated assault where a firearm has been discharged carries a minimum and maximum sentence of 20 years without regarding to any extenuating or mitigating circumstances that may be present, such as those in this case," Daniel said.
Brown, the Jacksonville congresswoman, told reporters after the sentencing that the case was a product of "institutional racism."
"She was overcharged by the prosecutor. Period," Brown said. "She never should have been charged."
Brown has been more complimentary about Corey's work in the Trayvon Martin case, where her office filed second degree murder charges against neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in the February 26 death of the unarmed African-American teen-ager.
That case provoked nationwide protests demanding Zimmerman's arrest after an initial police investigation released him under the "stand your ground" law.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/justice/florida-stand-ground-sentencing

If Zimmerman gets not guilty, the lesson is: In Florida, shoot to kill.

[Wiglaf]

You make some excellent points my friend. However, If Martin FELT justified, but was NOT actually justified, then wouldn't Zimmerman have the same right to use deadly force when attacked? Hmmmmm??????

There are two things you could mean by "Martin was not actually justified" --

(1) A reasonable person in Martin's shoes would also fear he was in imminent fear of great bodily injury or death, and running away was not a great option, but Zimmerman was not actually posing a threat. (An example would be if a reasonable person sees what looks like a gun and shoots the person holding it -- but it turns out to be a rubber toy, and the person holding it doesn't even notice the 'victim.') In this case, yes, Zimmerman would be justified in striking back when attacked, assuming he did not intentionally or recklessly put Martin in this fear. Therefore, no crime would be committed. Or you could mean:

(2) Martin's fear about Zimmerman was not reasonable. Then he gets no protection.

The reason I suggested Zimmerman would be guilty of second degree murder in that example is that I assumed (apparently incorrectly) that you meant Zimmerman gave Martin reason to fear on purpose, or by doing something that constituted criminal assault.

[PLATO]

(1) A reasonable person in Martin's shoes would also fear he was in imminent fear of great bodily injury or death, and running away was not a great option, but Zimmerman was not actually posing a threat. (An example would be if a reasonable person sees what looks like a gun and shoots the person holding it -- but it turns out to be a rubber toy, and the person holding it doesn't even notice the 'victim.') In this case, yes, Zimmerman would be justified in striking back when attacked, assuming he did not intentionally or recklessly put Martin in this fear. Therefore, no crime would be committed.

Yes indeed...this is what I meant.

[Berzerker]

the prosecution tried to make a stand your ground argument on behalf of martin, but martin wasn't afraid, he let zimmerman walk by him twice while he stood near the t intersection out of sight talking to his gf and then walked up behind him and started asking questions as zimmerman was returning to his truck

zimmerman dont deserve a jail cell, but the liars prosecuting him do

[Wiglaf]

It is disheartening the jurors did not acquit today, and had to ask for the evidence list. There is no way anyone paying attention during any part of this trial would conceive of voting for conviction, which means they should have returned a verdict within about 5 minutes.

[-Jrabbit]

The OJ case blowback made quick verdicts almost impossible in high-profile cases.
Juries want to be perceived as doing their due diligence.

I predict acquittal, and Monday.

[Wiglaf]

It's more that they've now been together for several weeks without being able to really discuss the case. It's turned into an experience for them, and psychologically you have to prepare for life after it. Socially they want to see what other people are up to and such. It's hard to do that in an afternoon.

[Docfeelgood]

JURORS IN ZIMMERMAN TRIAL ASK FOR MANSLAUGHTER CLARIFICATION

[Sava]

I'll never understand the foxnews type conservative news commenter people. They seem to want that League of Legends player jailed for ten years for his Facebook comments about shooting kids (LOL JKJKJKJ LOLLOLOL). But actually stalking and killing an unarmed kid? Well, that's self-defense!

retards

[Wiglaf]

Clearly they have ruled murder out, they probably just want to double check that self defense is a complete defense to manslaughter (which it is)

I'll never understand the foxnews type conservative news commenter people. They seem to want that League of Legends player jailed for ten years for his Facebook comments about shooting kids (LOL JKJKJKJ LOLLOLOL). But actually stalking and killing an unarmed kid? Well, that's self-defense!

Anyone who plays league of legends should be sentenced to 20 years of hard labor and raped mercilessly the entire time

[Wiglaf]

I want to get in on this wrongful termination action

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/13/19457593-it-director-who-alleged-evidence-withheld-from-zimmerman-defense-fired

IT director who alleged evidence withheld from Zimmerman defense fired
By Tom Winter and Daniel Arkin, NBC News
An employee of the Office of the State Attorney in Jacksonville, Fla., who testified that prosecutors withheld evidence from George Zimmerman’s defense team has been fired, his lawyer told NBC News.
Ben Kruidbos, who testified for the defense before the trial began and identified himself as a "whistleblower," alleged that his former employer concealed or was slow to deliver discovery information obtained from Trayvon Martin’s cell phone – including pictures of a hand holding a gun and a gun on a bed.
Zimmerman’s defense team has filed a motion of judicial sanctions against state prosecutors, alleging discovery violations. The state has denied these violations.

[Docfeelgood]

I want to get in on this wrongful termination action

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...-defense-fired

proof of railroading GZ

[Docfeelgood]

TM supporters will burn and loot if GZ is found not guilty.
I think the jury will find him guilty of MS.