The Zimmerman Trial

[Wiglaf]

I love how the prosecutor claimed in that unhinged termination letter that the IT guy was only saying he is a whistleblower to take advantage of whistleblower laws. What idiots. Disbarrments all around.

[Dinner]

Florida law is ****ed up:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/justice/florida-stand-ground-sentencing

If Zimmerman gets not guilty, the lesson is: In Florida, shoot to kill.

This is what happens when NRA fanatics write your laws. Common sense goes out the window and dead bodies start dropping.

[Elok]

The bigger problem in that case seems to be mandatory sentencing. Which is rubbish, as always.

[Dinner]

No argument there. Mandatory sentencing is way out of control and yet it thrives because every politicians has to prove he's "tough on crime" by making it even tougher, more draconian, and more brain dead than the last. This often results in completely bull**** sentences like the one where the guy got life in prison for stealing a $4 VHS tape.

It's just a waste of tax payer money and public safety would be better served by allowing the judges themselves to make the decisions but that's not possible when mandatory sentences become law. Do you ever notice how it is usually Republicans who claim to hate the government and government power who are always pushing this nonsense?

[Elok]

Question for lawyers: if someone appealed a mandatory sentence to the Supremes on the grounds that mandatory sentencing is an unconstitutional usurpation of judicial powers by the legislature, what kind of odds would you give them?

EDIT: Assuming the current court lineup.

[regexcellent]

This is what happens when NRA fanatics write your laws. Common sense goes out the window and dead bodies start dropping.

The NRA didn't write any of the laws involved.

Self defense has been a defense against murder since like, well, nobody actually knows because it always has been.

[Elok]

Self defense has been a defense against murder since like, well, nobody actually knows because it always has been.

Do you know that for a fact? Not that I know either way, but given the long, weird history of law in the West, I'd be somewhat surprised if there hadn't been a time (or at least certain circumstances) where that didn't count. E.g. if the victim was of a higher social class. Also, in some ancient cultures--Celtic and Germanic, I think--you could buy off a murder rap by paying a boatload of cash to the victim's family. I wonder if even self-defense would erase the "debt" incurred? The dude's still dead and can no longer contribute economically to his household, after all.

Just seems like an interesting question to me.

[Wiglaf]

No argument there. Mandatory sentencing is way out of control and yet it thrives because every politicians has to prove he's "tough on crime" by making it even tougher, more draconian, and more brain dead than the last. This often results in completely bull**** sentences like the one where the guy got life in prison for stealing a $4 VHS tape.

It's just a waste of tax payer money and public safety would be better served by allowing the judges themselves to make the decisions but that's not possible when mandatory sentences become law. Do you ever notice how it is usually Republicans who claim to hate the government and government power who are always pushing this nonsense?

Who got life in prison for stealing a $4 VHS tape? Was it the tape from The Ring?

Question for lawyers: if someone appealed a mandatory sentence to the Supremes on the grounds that mandatory sentencing is an unconstitutional usurpation of judicial powers by the legislature, what kind of odds would you give them?

EDIT: Assuming the current court lineup.

0.00%

[Wiglaf]

it is true that the judiciary has an obvious interest in sentencing criminals, states also have the constitutionally protected power to police, set norms etc. this is well settled precedent so odds on appeal are nil. although scalia would agree with you.

[Elok]

Yeah, but mandatory sentencing is taking away power from the judiciary, no? I'd have thought sentencing would be something exclusive to them. But, like Lori said, IANAL. And I'm biased because I hate those laws, and other attempts to take initiative away from people who understand the immediate situation better than central planners could.

[Dinner]

Who got life in prison for stealing a $4 VHS tape? Was it the tape from The Ring?



0.00%

Some black guy in California who ran afoul of the three strikes law. The law was later amended by his sentence stands as it was on the books at the time.

[Dinner]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockyer_v._Andrade

Technically it was a 50 year sentence for attempting to steal five low cost VHS tape from a Kmart store.

[Wiglaf]

Yeah, but mandatory sentencing is taking away power from the judiciary, no?

some, but they still have the power to sentence. all that is imposed are minimums. You have to recognize the risks inherent to letting judges give wildly different sentences to criminals for the same crime...I think the liberals in this thread would have heart attacks..

nd I'm biased because I hate those laws, and other attempts to take initiative away from people who understand the immediate situation better than central planners could.

When the people are the "central planners," your line of thinking tends to lose out -- even in courts

[Wiglaf]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockyer_v._Andrade

Technically it was a 50 year sentence for attempting to steal five low cost VHS tape from a Kmart store.

Technically it was a 50 year sentence for being a repeat offender who is too retarded to stop committing felony crimes even when he knows the consequences. Hope he dies in jail unhappy and alone

[Dinner]

The NRA didn't write any of the laws involved.

Self defense has been a defense against murder since like, well, nobody actually knows because it always has been.

Liar. Not only did the NRA and its shills write these laws they also were the ones pushing these laws. Stand your ground is just license to murder at least how it is written. It's just so broad as to be out of control.