The Zimmerman Trial

[Sava]

given the interviews of his neighbors it would seem that most folks were happy with his volunteerism and service to the community.

Of course. You could kill a hundred innocent black teenagers and they'd throw a block party.

[PLATO]

Of course. You could kill a hundred innocent black teenagers and they'd throw a block party.

Obviously this community has both black and Hispanic members. This is just a dumb comment.

[The Mad Monk]

Of course. You could kill a hundred innocent black teenagers and they'd throw a block party.

Why would a community that's about 20% each black and hispanic throw a block party over that?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Hmm, she lost a close friend in a tragedy an has received support from a good portion of America and has now received an offer for a full ride scholarship to any college in the US. And all you can focus on is some morons that poked a little fun at her. There are always a few bullies everywhere.

...and Kato Kaelin got instant celebrity status but was also similarly derided as a retarded moron this despite the fact that he lost a close friend. Hell the victim, Nicole, was widely lampooned as being a complete slut with her "Brentwood Hello" and her best friend's recollection of her comments on the size of Marcus Allen's genitalia. In other words, welcome to the wonderful world of public exposure and all the poor civil discourse that goes with it.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

This attitude is why Europeans are such a bunch of pussies.

That attitude is the core principle of the U.S. Constitution.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

The only qualificaion required is the willingness to do a volunteer job for no pay out of a sense of responsibility and service to the community.

Even if I grant you the motivation, which I don't, that would be the only qualification he had, not the only one necessary. A willingness to show up and screw things up is not enough. If the community truly wants more protection there are ways to get it, including being willing to pay more to support the police or similarly trained and transparent organizations. (Again, in theory, at least.)

If anyone didn't like what he was doing it is well within their own abilities to volunteer to do it in his stead. This typically is the problem with home owners associations everyone wants to ***** about the volunteers who do things, but never want to get involved to make a meaningful change. However, given the interviews of his neighbors it would seem that most folks were happy with his volunteerism and service to the community.

It's funny you put it that way. I just had a conversation with my boss about being the person who does things because they need to be done even when it's not strictly part of my job. I'm also part of the board of my HOA because nobody else was willing to do it. The difference is that when I do that work I only do the parts I'm qualified for...I don't fix the HVAC at work or handle the legal work for the HOA. The idea that someone doing a job is better than nobody doing it is just wrong. Volunteers are helpful for some things, but not for applying the law to a population.

[Felch]

That attitude is the core principle of the U.S. Constitution.

Wrong.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Really? It's not about checks and balances? About the people in charge of protecting and serving the community being ultimately beholden to that same community in clearly outlined ways?

[notyoueither]

That does seem strange given the presumption that an armed citizenry has a right if not an obligation to overthrow really bad government...

Who elected them?!

[Wezil]

She lost a close friend to murder...

No, she didn't (unless you are referring to someone other than TM).

Just as a civilian is not a cop.

Words matter Ken.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Even if I grant you the motivation, which I don't, that would be the only qualification he had, not the only one necessary. A willingness to show up and screw things up is not enough. If the community truly wants more protection there are ways to get it, including being willing to pay more to support the police or similarly trained and transparent organizations. (Again, in theory, at least.)

Right ... the other qualification is the ability to have a cell phone that allows outgoing calls to 911. I suspect the HOA did not intend to have armed security guards patrolling the premises and were quite satisified with an arrangment where a neighborhood watch was charged with calling 911 when suspicious behavior was noted. Thus Zimmerman was charged with calling 911 as he did. The fact that he got sucker punched and had to defend himself as part of his efforts to relay info to the 911 and police is rather immaterial to his role as neighborhood watch.

It's funny you put it that way. I just had a conversation with my boss about being the person who does things because they need to be done even when it's not strictly part of my job. I'm also part of the board of my HOA because nobody else was willing to do it. The difference is that when I do that work I only do the parts I'm qualified for...I don't fix the HVAC at work or handle the legal work for the HOA. The idea that someone doing a job is better than nobody doing it is just wrong. Volunteers are helpful for some things, but not for applying the law to a population.

And a volunteer charged with keeping an eye out and reporting to the authorities is not overly taxing as to require any special qualification as any citizen is capable of doing so.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

That does seem strange given the presumption that an armed citizenry has a right if not an obligation to overthrow really bad government...

Who elected them?!

I've always wondered why people focus so much on the second amendment as the ultimate check on tyranny when the entire document is full of various ways to check tyranny. It's like the Christian groups that focus a lot of energy on Revelations. Yeah, it's in there, but if it becomes important it means most of the rest of the document isn't important any more and until that happens maybe we should pay more attention to the parts that are in play now.

That said, I do support the second amendment from a rights perspective, I just see the rest as kind of important too. But that's another discussion we don't need right now.

[rah]

A neighborhood watch is supposed to look for things and report them. Anyone with eyes and a phone is qualified. And guess what, that is what he did.
What he did afterwards had nothing to do with his original qualifications for volunteering. Watches do not apply law to the population.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Right ... the other qualification is the ability to have a cell phone that allows outgoing calls to 911. I suspect the HOA did not intend to have armed security guards patrolling the premises and were quite satisified with an arrangment where a neighborhood watch was charged with calling 911 when suspicious behavior was noted. Thus Zimmerman was charged with calling 911 as he did. The fact that he got sucker punched and had to defend himself as part of his efforts to relay info to the 911 and police is rather immaterial to his role as neighborhood watch.

And a volunteer charged with keeping an eye out and reporting to the authorities is not overly taxing as to require any special qualification as any citizen is capable of doing so.

That's pretty clearly not the case, as someone who was qualified to do it wouldn't have put themselves in the situation where they could get sucker punched (again, going with that version of events).

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Watches do not apply law to the population.

Then what good are they? Unless you're splitting the hair of applying law to the population being different than causing law to be applied to the population, in which case I'll refer you to my earlier comment about the power inherent in choosing to report or not to report.