School Shooting

[MrFun]

That is your approach to everything isn't it?

My statement is just as retarded as your complete lack of faith in police.

[MrFun]

I wonder if we would see just as widespread and as high of level of pro-gun militancy among white gun owners, if we saw the same proportional number of minority people of color who own guns?

[giblets]

Are you suggesting that black gun use is contributing to pro-gun control sentiments?

[MrFun]

Are you suggesting that black gun use is contributing to pro-gun control sentiments?

No, I'm saying that white supremacists who happen to also be militant pro-gun nuts **** themselves or piss themselves at the thought of blacks being equally adamant about owning guns.

We would not see nearly the number of whites being vigilant about the right to bear arms, if there were just as proportionate number of blacks owning guns.

[molly bloom]

Wait are you actually disputing the idea that driving a very large vehicle at high speed through an area densely populated with pedestrians wouldn't kill or injure a lot of people?

Nope. I'm disputing that you know anything about traffic conditions in Central London, and especially Trafalgar Square- the subject of a large pedestrianisation scheme between 1996-2003.

http://www.fosterandpartners.com/Projects/1046/Default.aspx

I'm also aware of several instances worldwide, where motor vehicles have been driven into pedestrians intentionally or accidentally- and the death tolls don't approach those of mass killings with guns. Try to think before you type- it will be of benefit to your self-esteem in the future.

As for getting into college, 2230 on my SATs, 5s on AP exams like AP Physics C, and good grades in high school certainly helped.

So what, you're saying you've been studying really hard to appear stupid and uninformed ? Or you suffered some kind of severe head trauma, or some kind of virus attacked your meninges soon after you started university ?

[molly bloom]

I've never been to London so I had no way of knowing that. But thanks for the explanation.

And yet still you felt the need to share your ignorance and inexperience of it with us. The sheer generosity of America's uninformed youth....

[molly bloom]

All those gun owners constitute about 47% of all households in the country.

And look how active and alert they were defending the civil rights of their fellow Americans all through the 20th Century.

In the Red Scare of 1919, for instance, upwards of 10 000 people were arrested- a large number being detained without trial for a lengthy period. The following year, a further 6 000 were arrested. The huge conspiracy alleged to necessitate all the unlawful searches and detentions was backed up with a massive arsenal of 3 handguns, and no dynamite or explosives.

Or look at the provisions of the 'anti-terror' Patriot Act- circumscribing existing rights to a fair trial, an open trial, a trial by one's peers, the presumption of innocence, the confidentiality of lawyer-client relations, protection against unresaonable search or seizure, loss of citizenship... and so on.

All those handguns seem to have been remarkably silent and unused, despite these erosions of the civil liberties of Americans- but then the notion that tyranny suddenly happens in climactic act is fairly fatuous.

Of course you could always rely on the Supreme Court for legal redress, couldn't you ?

"... protection of (Americans') rights will be ratcheted down to the constitutional minimum. "

Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, March 2003

[molly bloom]

You realize they never got rid of booze or poverty, right?

That should have been apparent if you'd read my post in its entirety.

The point was not that the War On Poverty failed, or that Prohibition failed, but that both the problems were addressed, however unsuccessful the outcomes.

In order to ensure black students could attend school in Arkansas in 1957, the government relied on a Supreme Court edict, a Presidential proclamation, the 101st Army Airborne Division, and a special federalized state militia- to escort students to one school. Where there's a will...

Why do you think a suicide vest isn't used for mass murder?

I didn't say that. I dispute that the motivations of suicide bombers and spree or mass murderers are the same. People who go on urban rampages negate the identities and existence of others in order to say to the world immediately- look at me, and how I solve my problems !- however false the logic behind this might be.

Suicide bombers negate their own identities to further a political or religious cause- which may not achieve its aims for many years, if at all.

The right of blacks to bear arms has been infringed on for most of our history.

And ? Are you saying only black Americans shoudl have cared about the civil rights of black Americans ?

And you seem to be responding to an excerpt of something that I said pulled completely out of context.

No, you simply have difficulty understanding my point.

Japanese Americans made up about .2% of the population at the time. etc...

Yeah, see.

[kentonio]

It's not just a matter of convincing a bunch of cowards to be afraid of inanimate objects.

The cowards are the ones who thing they absolutely have to own a gun to protect them from a range of imaginary threats.

That is the reason groups like the NRA and its supporters will never support it.

Interesting fact: in 1991 a poll found 78% of Americans supported stricter gun control. If you folks stopped lapping up the NRA's propaganda you could sort out your problems.

[regexcellent]

It's not NRA propaganda that prevents gun control. It's the NRA's 4 million members (such as myself and Felch) and also the 47% of households with guns.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

No, I'm saying that white supremacists who happen to also be militant pro-gun nuts **** themselves or piss themselves at the thought of blacks being equally adamant about owning guns.

We would not see nearly the number of whites being vigilant about the right to bear arms, if there were just as proportionate number of blacks owning guns.

A number of thoughts:

1)Presumably then you argue that the NRA is inherently non-white supremacist given the history of the organization and its advocacy of gun ownership within in all communities but especially so in order to arm blacks to fend of the terrorism of the KKK. Yay union officers Col. William C. Church and Gen. George Wingate. (BTW this includes support for militant black activists in the 60's who were well known leftists and communists.)

2)I am confused as to why the racial makeup of gun owneship has anything to do with the issue. You indicate that whitey would not support gun control if more blacks had guns. The fear of someone else possssessing a gun only applies if there is reason to think that a conflict with that armed person may happen. Why would anyone worry about such a conlict with peaceful citizens? The vast, vast, vast majority of gun owning citizenry recognize the responsibility of gun ownership and do not intend to use their weapons except for defense. If black citizenry own defensive weaponary how does that in anyway mean anything to an average gun owner? Or is this an implicit admission of your own prejudices that you automatically assume a) blacks are intending their weapons for offensive acions or b) have prejudices against white gun owners believing them intending to pre-remptively attack blacks (only to face an armed response).

[Main_Brain]

By then, who knows, it'll probably be possible to 3d print a gun in your basement. It's already possible to 3d print most of an AR-15.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/12/weaponeers/

most?

The gun tested this weekend was not fully 3-D printed, only partially. The only printed part was the lower receiver — or the gun’s trigger and grip — for an AR-15 rifle completed with off-the-shelf metal parts[..]

A group of 3-D printing gunsmiths have taken another step toward making a gun you can download off the internet. This weekend, the desktop weaponeers took a partially printed rifle out to test how long its plastic parts survived spewing bullets. The result? Six rounds until it snapped apart.

[kentonio]

It's not NRA propaganda that prevents gun control. It's the NRA's 4 million members (such as myself and Felch) and also the 47% of households with guns.

That 47% is a sudden spike over the last 2 years, before that it was declining steadily. America's gun habit isn't quite as rock solid as people like to think.

[Felch]

My statement is just as retarded as your complete lack of faith in police.

I like cops, and I trust most of them to do their best, but I don't trust them to protect me at all times.

I wonder if we would see just as widespread and as high of level of pro-gun militancy among white gun owners, if we saw the same proportional number of minority people of color who own guns?

No, I'm saying that white supremacists who happen to also be militant pro-gun nuts **** themselves or piss themselves at the thought of blacks being equally adamant about owning guns.

We would not see nearly the number of whites being vigilant about the right to bear arms, if there were just as proportionate number of blacks owning guns.

Yet again, MrFun smears everybody who disagrees with him as a racist.

I would rather live in a community of black gun owners than white gun grabbers. Gun owners, whether they're black, white, brown or purple, take responsibility for their own safety, and the safety of their communities. Gun grabbers are enemies of freedom.

That should have been apparent if you'd read my post in its entirety.

The point was not that the War On Poverty failed, or that Prohibition failed, but that both the problems were addressed, however unsuccessful the outcomes.

The point is that they both failed. When government bites off more than it can chew, it tends to fail. Why continue a failing strategy of social engineering?

In order to ensure black students could attend school in Arkansas in 1957, the government relied on a Supreme Court edict, a Presidential proclamation, the 101st Army Airborne Division, and a special federalized state militia- to escort students to one school. Where there's a will...

Integrating schools is not the same as seizing hundreds of millions of guns. It's not the same ball park. It's nothing like it at all.

And ? Are you saying only black Americans shoudl have cared about the civil rights of black Americans ?

I'm saying that most Americans throughout history were racist. Whether they should have been or not is irrelevant to the fact that they were.

No, you simply have difficulty understanding my point.

Your point is that you don't look at statements in the context of a broader discussion?

Yeah, see.

If one in five hundred people resist the government, they'll be destroyed. If one in five resist, the government will have a much tougher time.

The cowards are the ones who thing they absolutely have to own a gun to protect them from a range of imaginary threats.

What's imaginary about home invasions? What's imaginary about the government murdering people? Are you a Holocaust denier now too?

Interesting fact: in 1991 a poll found 78% of Americans supported stricter gun control. If you folks stopped lapping up the NRA's propaganda you could sort out your problems.

78% of Americans don't trust big government. Polls are fickle, and not the basis for a sound Constitution. It's why we have one that's written down, and you have the ashes of a failed Empire.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Wow, talk about the arrogance. I think it'll lead to plenty of people dancing on the corpse of the US once this country falls.