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  • Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat View Post
    Try joining your local gym with a typical gym contract, then deciding screw it and not paying the cancellation fee.
    In this case I willingly signed a contract to be part of this gym. This isn't the case with your other example.
    When you take the union shop job, you're agreeing to certain terms and conditions
    When I take a job, I'm agreeing to provide my labor in return for a negotiated wage not agreeing to be a member of a private organization or have my paycheck taxed by that same organization.
    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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    • Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
      In this case I willingly signed a contract to be part of this gym. This isn't the case with your other example.When I take a job, I'm agreeing to provide my labor in return for a negotiated wage not agreeing to be a member of a private organization or have my paycheck taxed by that same organization.
      That seems to be splitting hairs. The 'member of a private organization or have paycheck taxed by same organization' is part of the employment contract, like having to wear a uniform when agreeing to provide your labor in return for a negotiated wage.
      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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      • Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui View Post
        That seems to be splitting hairs. The 'member of a private organization or have paycheck taxed by same organization' is part of the employment contract, like having to wear a uniform when agreeing to provide your labor in return for a negotiated wage.
        And we're back to the reason I support RTW efforts.
        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui View Post
          That seems to be splitting hairs. The 'member of a private organization or have paycheck taxed by same organization' is part of the employment contract, like having to wear a uniform when agreeing to provide your labor in return for a negotiated wage.
          Duh, some people just want to change the law in order to weaken unions. That's why this is the only compulsory aspect of employment that bothers them.

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          • Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
            Seriously though, is there any other private membership based organization the State can mandate private citizens pay money to?
            Non-union workers can quit their job, and find a different job.
            A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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            • Originally posted by Felch View Post
              Oh, I get it now. Unions want union membership to be mandatory.
              It's not mandatory. Non-union workers who prefer lower wages and would rather not gain benefits from collective bargaining, can quit their job and find a different job where they won't be compelled to pay union dues.
              A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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              • Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
                When I take a job, I'm agreeing to provide my labor in return for a negotiated wage not agreeing to be a member of a private organization or have my paycheck taxed by that same organization.
                You're CHOOSING to take the job knowing full well (hopefully they inform you) that you will be obligated to pay union dues whether you want to or not. There's no compulsion here.
                A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                • Originally posted by Aeson View Post
                  I apologize for reading "all" as "all" instead of "some of", if you will recognize that you have dropped every substantial point of discussion to focus on what you now are ready to admit was not a strawman.
                  I'd just been talking about the union structure. Seriously, reading isn't difficult. PM me your address and I'll send you out a few Spot the Dog books to get you started.

                  Originally posted by Felch View Post
                  If they want all workers to receive better conditions, then they should have no problem with free riders. Obviously it's not true, but kentonio said something ridiculous, I pointed it out, and here you are making more personal attacks. Not even one that makes sense, given that I'm a bit old to have been a product of NCLB. MtG showing how classy he is
                  Many, many union people are idealists who want all working people to have a better standard of living. No, they won't throw their members under the bus to hand minor improvements to workers who don't want to join the unions, but claiming they only care about their own members is a smear job. It's not based in reality and it's only purpose is to paint those folks as the bad guys. I disagree with a lot of their methods, and if uncontrolled, unions can move into pretty dangerous political territory like they did in the UK in the seventies. There is however a lot of very deeply held idealism and conviction there, and ignoring that is foolish.

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                  • Not-So-Secret-Santa?
                    No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

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                    • Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat View Post
                      He's referring to companies' efforts to keep individual compensation of non-CBA covered employees private by discouraging discussion among the non-CBA employees. It's a pretty common (and illegal) practice. Obviously in the case of a CBA, everyone knows the scales. Same thing when I worked for USG, I had current DOL prevailing wage determinations for every classification in every geographic area where I had a task order under management.
                      Originally posted by Uncle Sparky View Post
                      I stand corrected, brother, and apologize to the idiot.
                      So I'm an idiot for relating my own personal experience? I've never worked in a union, but I've often been told not to share what I'm being paid with other workers. Obviously when there's a union contract, compensation can't be kept secret. When there's no union, companies make it a matter of "employee confidentiality." As if it benefited anybody but the boss to keep pay secret. Why is it that every time I say something that's 100% true, some union ******* calls me a liar or an idiot?

                      I'm not anti-union. I just think that people should be free to not join a union if they don't want to. Obviously unions have advantages, but it should be up to individuals whether or not they want to participate.
                      John Brown did nothing wrong.

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                      • Originally posted by MrFun View Post
                        It's not mandatory. Non-union workers who prefer lower wages and would rather not gain benefits from collective bargaining, can quit their job and find a different job where they won't be compelled to pay union dues.
                        Union membership isn't mandatory, but they want it to be mandatory. Otherwise they'd have no problem with right to work laws.
                        John Brown did nothing wrong.

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                        • Originally posted by gribbler View Post
                          Is compensation kept private in a union shop? I don't know. If not, +1 for unions.
                          Unions obviously don't keep compensation private, but I don't know how it works in mixed shops.
                          John Brown did nothing wrong.

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                          • If a worker doesn't want to be in a union, why would they have spent their lives working towards a career in an industry where union membership comes with the territory?

                            It's just another made up bull**** stance that has nothing to do with actual principles and morals. It's just about corporations and billionaires being able to squeeze more from the world. Everyone who is anti-union and not a billionaire is just ****ing retarded... or some newbie kid who thinks he knows everything because someone spoon fed it to him... or a troll.
                            To us, it is the BEAST.

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                            • I don't know why somebody would want to stay out of a union. But it's not for me or you to decide that anyone else should be in one
                              John Brown did nothing wrong.

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                              • Originally posted by Felch View Post
                                I don't know why somebody would want to stay out of a union. But it's not for me or you to decide that anyone else should be in one
                                Right. And this has nothing to do with that choice. You understand this... right?
                                To us, it is the BEAST.

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