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A study in failure: Benghazi

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  • #61
    I strongly doubt they keep laser designators at consulates. I don't have any way of knowing this but it seems highly unlikely. It was probably just a laser he had on his rifle like a PEQ or something.

    What was the time of day during the attack? AC-130s can only operate at night.

    Another possibility is that the air support was there, but that it was unable to do anything without hitting friendlies.

    e: to add, if the air support was actually there and that laser designating stuff was happening for the benefit of air support, then it was probably the call of whoever was in charge on board that aircraft not to shoot.
    Last edited by regexcellent; October 26, 2012, 18:01.

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    • #62
      Why didn't the US military work miracles? This is clearly the Obama administration's fault.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by regexcellent View Post
        Why didn't the US military work miracles?
        Coordination without all your paperwork filled out in triplicate is not a miracle, it's actually how most of modern society works. If the U.S. military can't make it from Italy to Libya in less than six hours, then they need to rethink their doctrine. Maybe they should examine Auftragstaktik. It worked pretty well for the Germans.
        Do not take anything I say seriously. It's just the Internet. It's not real life.

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        • #64
          It's not that they can't get there. It's what are they supposed to do when they get there? Getting there with everything you need is nontrivial and takes time. They're not firefighters. They don't sit around waiting for a call. They're maintaining vehicles, on leave, picking up cigarette butts, dicking around in the barracks playing video games, and so on.

          The line of criticism I would use is that we got prior warning from the Libyans about this. In that event we should have done some combination of:

          a) boosted security at the consulate
          b) draw up plans for rapidly securing the consulate from Italy
          c) keep units on standby to protect them in Italy

          We don't actually know that there was anything available to help them with. If there were in fact AC-130s available, then they probably weren't able to do anything because of it being daylight or the enemies being too close to shoot with 20mm cannons.

          Not being able to respond rapidly to a surprise attack with units in an entirely different command is not a valid line of criticism.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by regexcellent View Post
            I strongly doubt they keep laser designators at consulates. I don't have any way of knowing this but it seems highly unlikely.
            They died at the CIA annex.
            It was probably just a laser he had on his rifle like a PEQ or something.
            So those are the things you fire off willy nilly in hopes something shows up?
            What was the time of day during the attack? AC-130s can only operate at night.
            The attack began at ~9:40 pm.
            Another possibility is that the air support was there, but that it was unable to do anything without hitting friendlies.
            Are these planes not commonly used by U.S. Special Operations forces to provide support to Special Operations teams on the ground involved in intense firefights?
            I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
            For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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            • #66
              A PEQ is just an aiming laser for your rifle. It clips on. It has an IR laser on it. You could probably see that on an AC-130's low light equipment.

              Providing air support isn't as simple as SHOOT THE THING AT THE THING. I don't know much about it but I know that it is very very easy to accidentally slaughter your own guys with a howitzer when they're right next to the folks you're shooting at. An AC-130 has a 20mm cannon, a 40mm cannon, and a 105mm cannon. Those are very big guns.

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              • #67
                Well I'm still curious about a) the likelihood a CIA station would have ground laser target designators and since this seems to be an issue b) the effective minimum range of mortars which was the unit they were painting.
                I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                • #68
                  Mortars would probably be far enough away that air support could assist. I don't know for certain.

                  The lasers I'm talking about are aiming lasers for your gun:

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                  • #69
                    DD hates having a black man for president, too.
                    A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                    • #70
                      As if DD actually gives a **** about that. If you haven't seen the numerous reasons to oppose Obama that HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE then you haven't been reading very many posts on this board.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by MrFun View Post
                        DD hates having a black man for president, too.
                        You're the person on this board who used a racial slur against a person on this board quite recently. And you're telling us you think someone else cares about the colour of a man's skin?
                        "You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."--General Sir Charles James Napier

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                        • #72
                          Okay, so apparently there actually were both special operations teams and USAF aircraft which could have responded, and would have responded, but were ordered not to do so. That's inexcusable.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by regexcellent View Post
                            As if DD actually gives a **** about that. If you haven't seen the numerous reasons to oppose Obama that HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE then you haven't been reading very many posts on this board.
                            Some of those "reasons" such as what this thread is about, are just grasping at straws, since racists often know that it's not politically correct to just come out and blatantly oppose Obama because he's black.

                            Click image for larger version

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                            A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Zevico View Post
                              You're the person on this board who used a racial slur against a person on this board quite recently. And you're telling us you think someone else cares about the colour of a man's skin?
                              My using the word "nigger" does not make me anymore racist than Wiggy's use of the word "faggot" makes Wiggy homophobic.
                              A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                              • #75
                                Wow, a retired army colonel said the GOP is racist. The fact that he is a retired army colonel gives him so much credibility! I should believe everything he says because he fits a GOP demographic and he's criticizing the GOP.

                                Oh wait
                                If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                                :(){ :|:& };:

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