Intrade: 70.5% chance Obama will win third debate

[Hauldren Collider]

If one values the mother's sanity over the life of a handful of cells, I can easily see how one would justify abortion in cases of rape and incest.

His comment is dumb not only for the fact that it's politically stupid, but it is just plain stupid by any metric, and shows a spectacular lack of empathy.

On the contrary, I think he's showing an appropriate amount on empathy for the unborn child.

[giblets]

On the contrary, I think he's showing an appropriate amount on empathy for the unborn child.

How can you have empathy for something that doesn't have emotions? You can't have empathy for a clump of cells, by definition, unless you're insane.

[Guynemer]

Look, kid.

Maybe you've been lucky enough to never interact with a woman who has been raped. I have, many times. It is, psychologically, about the most terrifying, horrific experience a human being is ever likely to endure. And to force that woman, after having already been forced and violated in the most primal, humiliating way possible, to serve as an incubator for a embryo that she did not want, and was in fact forced upon her in every sense of the word, is beyond comprehension.

That is the last I'm going to say on this matter, because I genuinely like almost every one who posts here, even those I disagree with often. But this topic could easily change that, and I don't want it to change.

[DinoDoc]

If one values the mother's sanity over the life of a handful of cells, I can easily see how one would justify abortion in cases of rape and incest.

Logically, how does one holding a pro-life position in the abortion debate justify an abortion in any case other than the life of the mother being at risk?

[Imran Siddiqui]

How can you have empathy for something that doesn't have emotions? You can't have empathy for a clump of cells, by definition, unless you're insane.

This is a sad comment. And as Guy is doing, I may have remove myself from the matter going further as well.

[Hauldren Collider]

I guess gribbler has never felt empathy for small animals like guinea pigs and rabbits.

(Note: I am not opposed to varmint hunting)

[giblets]

I guess gribbler has never felt empathy for small animals like guinea pigs and rabbits.

(Note: I am not opposed to varmint hunting)

Guinea pigs and rabbits actually have emotions and clearly feel fear. Yet you have no problem with killing them, but God forbid anyone kill a cold, emotionless human fetus.

[Hauldren Collider]

Look, kid.

Maybe you've been lucky enough to never interact with a woman who has been raped. I have, many times. It is, psychologically, about the most terrifying, horrific experience a human being is ever likely to endure. And to force that woman, after having already been forced and violated in the most primal, humiliating way possible, to serve as an incubator for a embryo that she did not want, and was in fact forced upon her in every sense of the word, is beyond comprehension.

That is the last I'm going to say on this matter, because I genuinely like almost every one who posts here, even those I disagree with often. But this topic could easily change that, and I don't want it to change.

I just wanted to clarify something because I think I might have come across as too glib.

I'm not going to pretend to know what rape is like, or how horrible it is, or traumatizing. The best I can do is guess that it is somewhere between "very horrible" and "very extremely horrible". And I am certain that being forced to carry a baby of rape to term only makes it worse. To tell you the truth, it is something that I wonder about a lot. I am very anti-abortion, as you have probably guessed. I basically oppose elective abortions because I think that a fetus should be considered a moral person. Which means that when balancing out the rights of the fetus with the rights of the mother, it is hard to justify abortion under almost any circumstances. It makes me feel really awful and sick to imagine someone being forced to mother a child of rape, but I still feel that I can't justify the abortion. But it is a decision--forcing a woman to go through something degrading and horrible, or terminating what I believe to be a human life--that is always going to be difficult.

I completely understand if you have a differing view. You have a lot more personal experience than I do. I'm sorry if my views offended you.

[Asher]

If you don't know what it's like, you shouldn't be legislating what you would do. Be less authoritarian; support Liberty.

[giblets]

How do some people oppose being forced to pay for someone else's healthcare but they're okay with the government forcing a rape victim to provide her body to incubate a fetus she didn't want? I don't get that.

[Hauldren Collider]

If you don't know what it's like, you shouldn't be legislating what you would do. Be less authoritarian; support Liberty.

You are a ****ing idiot. Arguing with you is like talking to a third grader who still firmly denies the existence of negative numbers. You do not listen to a word anyone says. Go hang out with MrFun and the rest of your masturbation circle.

You could at least make some minimal effort to acknowledge the opposing arguments and actually address them, but you are either too stupid or too lazy or too arrogant or some combination of the three.

[Hauldren Collider]

How do some people oppose being forced to pay for someone else's healthcare but they're okay with the government forcing a rape victim to provide her body to incubate a fetus she didn't want? I don't get that.

I don't believe you actually don't understand this. But how about I just give you a quick summary of the relevant arguments anyway:

1. Public healthcare (particularly obamacare) is less efficient than private insurance. (NOTE: The US cannot be described as really having private insurance. There are huge, horrible government interventions into the healthcare system.) So not paying for someone else's healthcare through a redistribution scheme is better from the standpoint of maximizing social welfare.
2. If the fetus is a moral person, you shouldn't be allowed to kill it. Alimony sucks too but you can't kill your ex wife to avoid paying it.

You can disagree with these, fine. But don't claim again that there is some deep inconsistency here. There isn't.

[DinoDoc]

You are aware that gribbler isn't interested in a debate on this subject, right?

[Hauldren Collider]

You are aware that gribbler isn't interested in a debate on this subject, right?

Sometimes I hope that he will return to making interesting posts like he used to (pre-2011 or so).

[MikeH]

1. Public healthcare (particularly obamacare) is less efficient than private insurance.

Well. It's a bit more complicated than that. Reality is the efficiency is related to the specific scheme, some private are really efficient, some are horrible, some public are efficient, some are horrible.

eg. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10375877


The current US pre-Obamacare system is already comfortably the least efficient though.