Intrade: 70.5% chance Obama will win third debate

[Wezil]

Yes, but what about the mineshaft gap?!

[Imran Siddiqui]

This. Furthermore, both bayonets and horses are and continue to be used by the military. Every grunt gets issued knife for both utility reasons as well as last ditch hand to hand use, and if I recall correctly the reason why we had so much early success in Afghanistan was that we had special forces on horse back with the northern rebels calling in the shots.

But hey it's not like as a commander in chief you need to know what you are talking about, as long as it sounds witty.

It's like y'all don't know what the word "fewer" means.

[regexcellent]

Minesweeper gap?

As I understand it that actually is a serious problem. It would be pretty easy to block trade in a lot of places with just some naval mines. Strait of Hormuz, the Strait of Malacca, and so on.

The LCSes that are supposed to be minesweepers have basically no armor. They were at one point supposed to be surface combatants too but all they have are puny-ass missiles with anti-tank warheads (probably sufficient for punching through light ship armor) with a range of 3.5 miles (totally insufficient for ship-to-ship). They have a 57mm dual purpose gun. They have a close-in air defense system. That's it.

[regexcellent]

It's like y'all don't know what the word "fewer" means.

There aren't fewer bayonets. They hand out bayonets in our field exercises in ROTC, for christ's sake. It's an inspectable item so you do push-ups until your arms fall off if you don't have it.

[Tuberski]

This. Furthermore, both bayonets and horses are and continue to be used by the military. Every grunt gets issued knife for both utility reasons as well as last ditch hand to hand use, and if I recall correctly the reason why we had so much early success in Afghanistan was that we had special forces on horse back with the northern rebels calling in the shots.

But hey it's not like as a commander in chief you need to know what you are talking about, as long as it sounds witty.

That sounds logical, but how many of those horses were part of their training? How many were shipped from America as part of the military unit? I'm betting zero.

If you don't know the difference between what Obama meant by bayonets and today's utility knife, which is also used as a bayonet, then you are just being pedantic.

Nobody charges with horses or fixed bayonets anymore.

ACK!

[regexcellent]

We have no idea how many of our Special Forces soldiers are trained in equestrianism, because their training is classified. Given the mission of Army Special Forces, however, one can surmise that a lot of them have practiced with it. They probably also practiced it in the lead-up to the invasion.

The British did a bayonet charge in Iraq at one point.

The Rhodesians and Portuguese used horses extensively, and VERY effectively, at the same kind of warfare we're engaged in now. The terrain in Angola and Zimbabwe is very well suited to their use. They fought both on foot and from the saddle.

If you don't know the difference between what Obama meant by bayonets and today's utility knife, which is also used as a bayonet, then you are just being pedantic.

No he's not. Rifle bayonets have been detachable since the Revolutionary War, although they were in a sword form then, not a knife. Knife bayonets have been used since the first World War.

[MikeH]

There aren't fewer bayonets. They hand out bayonets in our field exercises in ROTC, for christ's sake. It's an inspectable item so you do push-ups until your arms fall off if you don't have it.

That doesn't make sense there are far fewer soldiers than in WWI so why do you have more bayonets?

[regexcellent]

Okay, my point was that they're not obsolete.

[Tuberski]

The Rhodesians and Portuguese forces aren't funded by the US.

I didn't mean they don't happen, just that bayonet charges are not SOP. Nowadays, as the British example shows, a bayonet charge is something that is last ditch.

ACK!

[MikeH]

Okay, my point was that they're not obsolete.

No. And in fact they are excellent for poking your strawman.

[regexcellent]

Those horse units in Africa were converted from mechanized units. Horses are really handy in places where vehicle maintenance is difficult and the terrain is unsuitable. It's also a lot easier to track people from horseback. They don't mess up footprints as much, they don't make as much noise so you can actually hear what's going on, and the high vantage point from the saddle makes it easier to see tracks as well. They were used for patrolling borders, and they moved with tracking dogs to sniff out infiltrators.

xpost

[kentonio]

Okay, my point was that they're not obsolete.

They are retained as a weapon of last resort, that doesn't stop them being obsolete. If you're ever in a situation when you need to take part in a bayonet charge, then the likelihood is that you're in deep, deep ****.

Obama's point was pretty damn obvious, and it's sad watching you guys try and counter it purely because you don't like the guy.

[Wezil]

Absurdity abounds at Poly these days.

He's going to tell you you've been trolled in a few more posts.

Poly Rules.

[regexcellent]

Obama's point was dumb for a number of reasons. Lonestar pointed out the main one. I'm pointing out that bayonets are still very useful given the fact that they are a) cheap b) double as utility knives and c) experience use in hand-to-hand combat both attached to and detached from the rifle with some frequency. Which is the second level on which Obama was wrong.

[kentonio]

and c) experience use in hand-to-hand combat both attached to and detached from the rifle with some frequency.

A similar frequency to people getting killed by lightning strikes perhaps?