Umpteenth shootout in the US, this time near New York's Empire State building

[Felch]

Iraq had the second amount of private firearms per capita during the Hussein years(it went US-Iraq-Finland) and, as we all know, the Iraqis deposed Hussein and it totally wasn't through outside intervention.

Most revolutions are successfuly because of outside intervention, and even those without signifigant outside Intervention(French Revolutioon) require a big chunk of "the establishment" to side with the revolutionaries. Widespread private firearm ownership is not as big a check on a tyranny as people like to think.

Are you implying that the U.S. occupation of Iraq was smooth and uneventful?

[Dauphin]

I guess he is, he was also saying that the U.S. was acting as a tyranny.

[Felch]

The U.S. was behaving tyrannically. I didn't think anybody would dispute that.

[rah]

Fatal shooting in Chicago are at an all time high. (despite reasonably harsh gun control laws.)
But more disturbing are (through the first 7 months of the year only) 1165 non fatal shootings. A lot of people getting shot.

[Wezil]

That's insane.

[kentonio]

No, I'm seriously trying to claim that we are nothing like Syria, and that we could use our tremendous number of guns to murder collaborators. I'm just curious about what sort of misconceptions you have.

You live in a country that has the most powerful intelligence gathering agencies on the planet, amongst a population that lives and breathes through telecommunications and the internet. In Afghanistan and to a lesser degree Iraq you were an outside occupation force amongst a population speaking foreign languages you had to translate who communicate widely through in-person conversation.

If you ever had a government which was truly tyranical and chose to turn that information gathering internally, most of the revolutionaries would be picked up/executed before they ever got a shot off. It definitely wouldn't help their cause that most of you have already posted endless online tirades about how you'd rise up against the government. They'd have 99% of you on a list before the revolution even got started.

[Alexander's Horse]

Fatal shooting in Chicago are at an all time high. (despite reasonably harsh gun control laws.)
But more disturbing are (through the first 7 months of the year only) 1165 non fatal shootings. A lot of people getting shot.

In Australia troops would be called in, we wouldn't have that many shootings nationwide in a decade

[Lonestar]

Are you implying that the U.S. occupation of Iraq was smooth and uneventful?

Oh, you mean the one where there was a break down of civil order and the militias and insurgents got their hands on **** way heavier than automatic rifles as the Iraqi army fell apart? Most deaths in the Iraqi insurgency came from IEDs, not glorious minutemen pulling their AKs off the fireplace mantle.

AND they had massive backing from outside sources(Iran if you're Shiite, Saudi Arabia if you'e Sunni), which is what I said is a prerequisite for a successful revolution. But you opted to ignore that rather important bit.

[Alexander's Horse]

maybe they need their guns for what is coming up from the south - more people are getting killed in Mexico than in Afghanistan these days

[Lonestar]

maybe they need their guns for what is coming up from the south - more people are getting killed in Mexico than in Afghanistan these days

Only in part of Mexico, which is something scare-mongers like to bring up. They ignore the fact that more illegals are returning to Mexico or not emigrating to start with because the economy is booming and the middle class is expanding.

If Mexico was truly the nightmare hellride that some people would have you believe we would be seeing a expansion of emigration out of the country, not a reversal.

[Alexander's Horse]

so gun lobbyists have no excuses

[Lonestar]

so gun lobbyists have no excuses

Violence in Mexico is often used to justify more gun control, not the other way around. Most notably by AG Holder.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I am not for more gun control laws. There are many more things we can do before diluting an enumerated right.


I just think you sound like a ****ing idiot if you talk about the 2nd Amendment as a serious check on a tyrannic government.

[regexcellent]

The authors of the Constitution envisioned a small or non-existent standing army mainly consisting of regular officers and NCOs, with volunteer soldiers in wartime. That is in marked contrast to what we have now. In that scenario the 2nd amendment would unarguably be a serious check.

It would be possible to revert to that mode by standing down active units and standing up lots of national guard units, but I don't know if that is actually advisable.

[DaShi]

Exactly, if anything, the American populace is severely underarmed.

[Felch]

You live in a country that has the most powerful intelligence gathering agencies on the planet, amongst a population that lives and breathes through telecommunications and the internet. In Afghanistan and to a lesser degree Iraq you were an outside occupation force amongst a population speaking foreign languages you had to translate who communicate widely through in-person conversation.

If you ever had a government which was truly tyranical and chose to turn that information gathering internally, most of the revolutionaries would be picked up/executed before they ever got a shot off. It definitely wouldn't help their cause that most of you have already posted endless online tirades about how you'd rise up against the government. They'd have 99% of you on a list before the revolution even got started.

I'm definitely on a list.