News about the female body

[Asher]

dp

[Asher]

Abortion is an important 'freedom' for your cultural allies, so no, you are not a disinterested third party.

WTF?

The lefties on this site consider me a rightie and the righties on this site consider me a leftie.

I don't have 'cultural allies'. Nor do I want or need them. I've come to my conclusion not because I'm a slave to dogma (not like you are as a Christian, certainly), but because I look at every aspect independently.

[Jon Miller]

It most certainly is not. You're lying to yourself if you think otherwise.

Humanity is not a scientific concept. Life is, to be sure.

But sperm is life, too.

Medical science has a pretty good understanding of what is human. This is due to studying how to heal and how the human works. Applying a consistent definition used at other times means that 3rd trimester humans are human too.

Sorry, you are either being dishonest, ignorant, or a fool.

JM

[Jon Miller]

WTF?

The lefties on this site consider me a rightie and the righties on this site consider me a leftie.

I don't have 'cultural allies'. Nor do I want or need them. I've come to my conclusion not because I'm a slave to dogma (not like you are as a Christian, certainly), but because I look at every aspect independently.

You are allied culturally with those who support gay rights.

This is not the pro-life group (due to the pro-life group being heavily Catholic due to life at conception issues).

I didn't say anything about left or right.

JM

[Jon Miller]

To be clear, I'm completely against killing babies.

But we're not talking about killing babies here, we're talking about first trimester abortions.


This is, quite honestly, Ben Kenobi-esque in its level of retardness.

Then why aren't you attacking third trimester abortions instead of defending 'abortion'.

Your defense of abortion isn't a defense of first trimester only abortions, rather it is a defense of all abortions. You claim that science can not differentiate something like yourself (or a someone in a coma) and a sperm. That nonsense is an argument for the defense of all abortions. It is this argument which results in my saying that you are being stupid.

So yes, I am still going to argue against you, even though you tack on 'first trimester abortion'.

edit:
I am arguing when I should be going to sleep or focusing on work, goodnight all.

JM

[Asher]

Medical science has a pretty good understanding of what is human. This is due to studying how to heal and how the human works. Applying a consistent definition used at other times means that 3rd trimester humans are human too.

Sorry, you are either being dishonest, ignorant, or a fool.

JM

You're confusing life with humanity.

Humanity includes sentience in my view. And many others'. I'm not dishonest, ignorant, or a fool. I'm a man with a different opinion who resents the fact that you think yours is the only viable opinion.

[Asher]

Then why aren't you attacking third trimester abortions instead of defending 'abortion'.

Because I don't want to get into the nitpicks about where we draw the line, because then it devolves into bickering about at what week do they suddenly become human. And it's a debate with no end.

Your defense of abortion isn't a defense of first trimester only abortions, rather it is a defense of all abortions.

Jon, I'm only going to say this one more time. I only support first trimester abortions. Stop saying I support all abortions.

You claim that science can not differentiate something like yourself (or a someone in a coma) and a sperm. That nonsense is an argument for the defense of all abortions. It is this argument which results in my saying that you are being stupid.

I didn't claim anything of the sort.

Did Ben Kenobi hack your account, or am I seeing the face of true Christianity here?

[Asher]

You are allied culturally with those who support gay rights.

This is not the pro-life group (due to the pro-life group being heavily Catholic due to life at conception issues).

I didn't say anything about left or right.

JM

This is patently absurd.

Gay rights has absolutely nothing to do with abortion rights aside from the fact that people who understand liberty tend to support both.

[DinoDoc]

I guess Claire McCaskill must be tempted to make a donation to Todd Akin's campaign now that he's been cut off from GOP campaign cash.

[Jon Miller]

What evidence do you have that 3rd trimester babies are not sentient?

They show the same signs of sentience that medical science uses to determine if a mind exists.

Shouldn't the assumption be, that if there exists any evidence of sentience that sentience exists unless proven otherwise (among human beings).

And I have ever right as a human being to get upset with those who use nonsensical arguments (if your argument was that you question sentience than say that, don't say the nonsense of the sperm being human or it being the same thing as killing a plant). You were the one who mentioned sperm/etc, not I.

JM

[Jon Miller]

This is patently absurd.

Gay rights has absolutely nothing to do with abortion rights aside from the fact that people who understand liberty tend to support both.

That was my point. Gay rights and abortion rights share a lot of members.

Just like anti-gay rights and pro-life, unfortunately.

JM

[Asher]

What evidence do you have that 3rd trimester babies are not sentient?

You should go to bed, Jon.

I believe 3rd trimester babies are sentient, and this is why I do not support third trimester abortions.

And I have ever right as a human being to get upset with those who use nonsensical arguments (if your argument was that you question sentience than say that, don't say the nonsense of the sperm being human or it being the same thing as killing a plant). You were the one who mentioned sperm/etc, not I.

JM

I didn't say sperm was human, I said it was life. It is a form of life. I didn't say plants were human, I said they were life. They are a form of life.

I'm drawing a distinction between life (which exists outside of humans, if you could believe it!) and humanity (which is not adequately defined by science, but is actually a spiritual or philosophical question). The point is we all do that, but we all do it at different places. To some, it's when sperm touches egg. To me, it's when sentience is obtained.

Who is right and who is wrong? You can't say that, it's not black and white. And because you can't say that, you sure as **** shouldn't legislate it.

[Asher]

Idle curiosity - do all pro life people think it's murder if a family member turns off life support for somebody brain dead?

[Robert]

So let me get this straight--you think that we shouldn't have abortions, but they are okay for rape? Are children of rape somehow less of a person than other children?

I think that abortion is a wrong and that rape is a wrong.
If there's rape and pregnancy, and a wife can't bear this pregnancy b/c of the rape then a choice has to be made between two wrongs. The first wrong is abortion, the other wrong is forcing the woman (and perhaps her (to be) partner and (to be) kids) to live with the results of the rape forever. (yes, I am perfectly aware that it is very well possible to be very happy with a child born out of rape, just saying that I don't want to force women).

Same if the life of the mother is in danger. It's then again a choice between two wrongs.

This world isn't perfect and I don't have the intention to make it perfect, b/c that's impossible.

In fact it all comes down to myself being pro choice and pro life.
if a woman had a choice, there should be no abortion.
If she could choose to have sex or not, if she could choose to use anti-conception or not.
If the pregnancy is the result of the choices one makes then I think that someone should accept the results of the choices.
A raped woman had no choice.

I'm against forcing anti-abortion laws upon the society b/c I believe that it's impossible in 2012 to establish it. I'd rather wish that people would change their minds about abortion and that the popular opinion will change. Like it did with slavery in the past.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]