Anyone Else Staying Up For The CERN Announcement About The Higgs Boson Tonight?

[Wiglaf]

Does this site censor the word ******?

[Wiglaf]

HOLY ****. How is HOLY **** censored but not ******?

[Tuberski]

They believe God was once a man and became a God by doing good works. Mormons believe in a different Jesus Christ.

They do not believe in a different Jesus.

They do believe God and Jesus are two different beings, you know, Jesus being the Son of God and all.

ACK!

[KrazyHorse]

And what's yours KH, as a percentage of income?

It was ~40% when living in NYC. ~35% in CT. Dumb ****.

[SlowwHand]

WOW! Bad vibes.

[Jon Miller]

WTF are you measuring "relative" to? GDP?

GDP corrected for inflation.

The paper doesn't support your position, Jon. I'd suggest you actually read it but I suspect you aren't even capable of identifying the points at which its findings in favor of publicly funded research do not support funding things like the LHC.

It does. It even mentions Astronomy, which has less to do with advancing science than the LHC. I would accuse you of not reading it, but I think better of you than that.

BS. Not in relation to their costs. Particularly not if you discount things we could do anyway without actually doing astronomy.

NONE of this supports the LHC. ALL of these goals could be achieved without the LHC. The LHC diverts students from studying useful things. Some of them study useful things by accident, but we would be better off telling them to study those things directly. You really have that high an estimate of the returns to new instrumentation? We could do all of that instrumentation research without actually building a giant tunnel. And any instrumentation research that can only be done in the presence of a multibillion dollar particle collider clearly can't have actual useful applications, otherwise we would just test it on those cases instead.

You claim so, but the evidence is against you. See my previous example of us never having proton therapy without colliders developed only for particle physics.

A rational argument that is against the evidence is still wrong.


Finally, your argument is not even coherent, because once you invent the instrumentation (which is very useful to business/industry/etc), basic research (like the LHC) is very cheap. The costs involved (of the ~6b) is primarily due to developing new instrumentation which is one of the key benefits of basic research.

Additionally, the development of scientific students happens the same in applied or basic research. For most businesses, since there is no student who worked directly with them, they have a lot of training to do and the skills that they look for in PhDs are found in Astronomers/Particle Physicists/etc.

At this point cold fusion is no less wasteful than the LHC.

Wrong, those doing cold fusion are not being trained properly scientifically and so are not as useful of graduates for industry/etc. Additionally, I would be suspicious of the efficiency of the instrumentation developed, as the human independent difference between good science and bad science has to do with the proper development of instrumentation.

Basically, this claim is nonsense.

BS. Once again you argue that the LHC proponents are heroically saving us from wasting our money on even less useful things. Do you realize how absurd that claim is?

I am claiming that the LHC is a useful expenditure to accomplish the goals that people have (basic research, education, development). Things that also achieve the human desire for exploration of the universe (astronomy/theory/etc) are worse on the education and/or development and/or exploring the universe fronts.

You compare apples and apples when determining whether something is the valuable choice. This has been my point the entire thread.

AI/Robotics/etc are not apples.

JM

[Kidlicious]

They do not believe in a different Jesus.

They do believe God and Jesus are two different beings, you know, Jesus being the Son of God and all.

ACK!

When you believe in Jesus but believe that his message was fundamentally different you believe in a different Jesus. That's the way most christians believe I think. Anyway, that's a methodist belief, and what I believe as well.

[ricketyclik]

It was ~40% when living in NYC. ~35% in CT. Dumb ****.

Good to know KH I'm led to believe many in similar positions to you don't, so good on you

As for the insult, well I know I provoked it, and I sure ain't no Master of the Universe