Also, the economy would collapse.

[SlowwHand]

Then you must be pretty happy with Obama, if this is your issue.

Oh, mice nuts.

[SlowwHand]

No. Low wage workers generally end up pulling way more out of SS than they put in. If illegals manage to avoid FICA (in fact, some of them do end up paying into it with no hope of collecting benefits) then in general they are still improving its fiscal situation.

And illegals don't pay taxes OR social security.

[regexcellent]

And illegals don't pay taxes OR social security.

Most of them do actually pay taxes. What they don't do is file tax returns, thus making them ineligible for refunds of overpayment. And after all, they would pay taxes if we just made them legal

The real question isn't about illegal immigration. It's about why we have limits on immigration in the first place. Why are they illegal?

[KrazyHorse]

That is what is known as "the right question".

I don't have any problem with enforcement of the law. The real question is why the law is what it is.

Open borders (subject to criminal background check), no social security net for migrants, unilateral free trade with every country on earth. These are the things that would benefit anybody who did them.

[DanS]

And illegals don't pay taxes OR social security.

This normally isn't correct, as I understand it. Normally, the illegals provide a false social security number or steal somebody else's. Their employers withhold the taxes and social security. But the illegals have no possibility of collecting on that social security or getting a tax refund.

[SlowwHand]

I see
So that's another criminal offense.

[regexcellent]

Yes, an offense that would be totally unnecessary if we just let them into the damn country.

[Felch]

I see
So that's another criminal offense.

Yes. Those evil criminals are paying taxes.

[DinoDoc]

Yes, an offense that would be totally unnecessary if we just let them into the damn country.

Get control of the border so it isn't an open invitation and the argument against amnesty would be harder to make. As it is now, we have Reagan's attempt at it to show amnesty before border control doesn't work.

[regexcellent]

I'm not talking about amnesty; I'm talking about letting new people in on permanent visas.

[Uncle Sparky]

They'd get at least minimum wage. Those that hire illegals need to be locked up. I sympathize more with illegals than those that hire them. You want to get started on social security running out? Illegal hiring plays a part in it.

Sadly, this is not true. Most documented foreign workers, by in-laws employ some, work under local labour laws. Most illegals get paid whatever their employers want and work ridiculous hour and are constantly under the threat of being turned in. Some are beaten and starved. In Canada recently a prominent construction contractor was arrested and several illegals from Hungary were liberated from slave like conditions. They were brought over several years ago, had their passports taken and, when not working, were locked in a basement. Construction trades, farms, and private households frequently abuse illegals, and do not meet labour laws.

I would be extremely surprised if Social Security, or any other government programs receive remuneration from such employers. I think if you were to advertise "Slaves wanted" outside of specialized adult listings, you wouldn't receive a lot of American applicants.

[onodera]

Open borders (subject to criminal background check), no social security net for migrants, unilateral free trade with every country on earth. These are the things that would benefit anybody who did them.

KH

[Dinner]

That is what is known as "the right question".

I don't have any problem with enforcement of the law. The real question is why the law is what it is.

Open borders (subject to criminal background check), no social security net for migrants, unilateral free trade with every country on earth. These are the things that would benefit anybody who did them.

The why is simple. Unions make higher wages by restricting the number of workers entering a given field, nativist political groups as well as racist political groups generally want to keep foreigners out, while even simple supply and demand means non-unionized work forces don't want cheap & easily exploitable workers lower wages for legal workers. Companies, naturally, want the lowest paid work force possible and if they can avoid paying things like taxes or worker's comp or even unemployment insurance then they will do so.

Our current political dysfunction is that politicians set EXTREMELY difficult legal immigration rules in order to make nativists and unionists and simple rednecks happy (no more "they took our jobs!") but they make sure there is little to no actual enforcement so that companies can still easily get their easily exploitable work force without fear of any meaningful fines or enforcement.

[Barnabas]

Don't you have sales taxes in the USA, meaning that all illegals pay taxes whenever they buy something at the supermarket to eat?

[Felch]

Most states have sales taxes, but there are very few sales taxes at the national level.