"Islam: The Eighth Wonder of the World"

[Zoetstofzoetje]

next to you? i was trying to park 6 spots on the right, and still hit you..

[Zoetstofzoetje]

So HC admits Zevico is engaging in the Islamic equivalent of anti-semitism... Why is prejudice against Muslims acceptable but against Jews is a horror?

Because, despite what popular opinion might have you believe, the Nazis were only a participant in the holocaust. The machinery that was required to assassinate a range of ethnic, political, religious population, homosexuals and handicapped, goes far beyond the actions of a small group of 'intrinsically evil' people. To accomplish this, you need active or inactive participation of a much larger group - turning a blind eye is an important factor.
After the war came shame and having any kind of critique on jews was a faux pas.

[dannubis]

Or the fact that women can't ****ing drive?

It baffles me that groups like Code Pink apologize for these people.

Women may not be allowed to drive but from what I have seen they still kick their husbands balls...

[molly bloom]

The British Museum has a rather good exhibition on at the moment:

http://www.britishmuseum.org/whats_on/exhibitions/hajj.aspx

In his Observer column yesterday, Nick Cohen really went for the British Museum. He argued that its exhibition Hajj glosses over a history fraught with violence, accepts a mythic official version of the early history of this renowned Muslim pilgrimage, and most seriously of all has allowed the regime of Saudi Arabia to sponsor and thereby influence the exhibition.

He says that: "In a piece for the American arts magazine Guernica, Joy Lo Dico embarrasses other critics by pointing out what was in front of their noses. Saudi Arabia provided exhibits ..."

As a critic who gave the exhibition a five-star review, I have to say that I am not embarrassed in the least – just disappointed that such a red herring is being chewed on. I saw those exhibits and where they came from. Just like I see the BP sponsorship of art galleries. Neither is as significant as Cohen implies. Is he claiming that people will go away from this exhibition full of praise for Saudi Arabia, and if an Arab spring erupts there, will refuse to support it because they remember that groovy exhibition at the British Museum? Sponsors – even when they are also lenders – get very little in return for the largesse that enriches our museums. It just washes over us; it does not covertly influence us.

Hajj is not a mealy-mouthed liberal suck-up to Islamic countries or institutions. The reason it works so well as an exhibition is that it is not calculated or polite – it is passionately enthusiastic. The curator really sees something beautiful in Islam and wants to get that across.

Is Cohen saying the medieval pilgrimage routes that are documented in the show are fictional? The illustrations of north African pilgrims in illuminated manuscripts, prints of the Ottoman-era route, and astrolabes that were developed partly to calculate the direction of Mecca seem like social history to me. I did not imbibe any theological propaganda from these items – what I did get was a picture of a communal activity shared by generations of people across the centuries and today.

The British Museum may not have answered his questions to his satisfaction but the real answer is obvious enough. There are plenty of frightening representations of Islam around. And I am not speaking as a hypocritical liberal: the scariest "representations" of Islam have been created in the name of the religion itself, in fire and blood, by religiously motivated terrorists.

But are you saying there is nothing to admire in a religion that has lasted so long and has so many adherents? Hajj captures the strengths of Islam as a cultural force – it is about those strengths, and documents them well. The history it tells is not propagandist. In fact, he misreads it if he thinks it conceals evidence of political power. The Saudi involvement today is historically contextualised by displays that show how in every era, the dominant political power of the Islamic world has sought to appropriate and control the Hajj. When TE Lawrence blew up trains in support of the Arab revolt, he was disrupting a railway line the Ottoman empire built to show its commitment to Mecca.

There is another point to this exhibition too: a wider audience. The British Museum is full of Muslim families and school parties. This museum does not just exist for critics and columnists but for the actual people who, by being attracted through its doors, are encountering the many cultures and religions of the world. I think Hajj is a beautiful exhibition and I am not ashamed to say so again.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/jonathanjonesblog/2012/mar/19/british-museum-hajj-pilgrimage-propaganda

[molly bloom]

Why is prejudice against Muslims acceptable but against Jews is a horror?

I don't believe that either is acceptable, but the prejudice against Jews is deeper rooted, and even more offensive, since most anti-semites go beyond the prejudice against the religion of Jews and are prejudiced against them for simply being Jews or the offspring of Jews.

The Nazi led genocide did not scruple to spare Jews who had converted or were atheists or simply had no interest in religion, or were otherwise secular patriotic Germans. It was a supreme example of ideological stupidity & auto-destructiveness.

There is also the fact that the western world and Christianity had finally to face up to many centuries of anti-semitism, led and sponsored by the Church or the state or individual rulers and politicians and its ultimate ignoble and squalid outcome.

Unfortunately, people like Stalin and his successors didn't learn too much from this, and there still are Nazi apologists and anti-semites today. You can lead a horse to water....

[Dr Strangelove]

How long did this guy live after writing this?

Also, in the US I think a doctorate in religion is a DD - Doctorate of Divinity.

[Dauphin]

I went to the Hajj exhibit, and can't say I saw any reason to complain that Saudi Arabia sponsored it. As a "neutral", or wider audience, I didn't see any propaganda in it, even if it was found to be fictionalised and idealised I couldn't see (or perhaps care) to what end it would have been.

[Zevico]

I went to the Hajj exhibit, and can't say I saw any reason to complain that Saudi Arabia sponsored it. As a "neutral", or wider audience, I didn't see any propaganda in it, even if it was found to be fictionalised and idealised I couldn't see (or perhaps care) to what end it would have been.

Do they mention the bits about "no Jews or Christians allowed", "no Churches or Synagogues," or "Shias risk getting beaten, repressed, whipped or deported depending on our mood"?

[Dauphin]

Do they mention the bits about "no Jews or Christians allowed", "no Churches or Synagogues," or "Shias risk getting beaten, repressed, whipped or deported depending on our mood"?

The first, explicity mentioned as a central theme, the second is directly referred to, and the third was referred to in terms of Shias having to find alternative pilgrimage sites to due to conflict. Given the exhibit was not about Saudi Arabia directly....

[Provost Harrison]

I went to the Hajj exhibit, and can't say I saw any reason to complain that Saudi Arabia sponsored it. As a "neutral", or wider audience, I didn't see any propaganda in it, even if it was found to be fictionalised and idealised I couldn't see (or perhaps care) to what end it would have been.

Wow, venart really is getting you out to more cultural exhibitions

[Dauphin]

Meh, it's more that she had an interview the following day and wanted to swat up. She got the job at the BM, but I think she would have even without me there to go to the exhibit.

[Provost Harrison]

Do you doubt that you imparted significant cultural and artistic information upon your betrothed?