Fair is fair . . . Georgia Democrats propose an anti-vasectomy bill

[Dinner]

We have no way of knowing, one way or another, what exactly is going on in the mind of an unborn child

We can, however, say if there is no brain and no brain activity then nothing is going through it's mind because it doesn't have one. Ergo, not a human being but a ball of cells much like a cancer or a polyp or any other body tissue. It's human tissue but it sure as hell isn't a human. It's no more a living human then the jizz your average 13 year old boy leaves crusted on a gym sock for his mother to find.

[MRT144]

So spiders are humans now.

Such arbitrary definitions do not move the discussion forward. Quite the contrary, in fact.

If we cant arbitrarily define personhood the abortionists have won.

[Elok]

A pig's pretty damned smart, and we eat them all the time. The standard of thought is as arbitrary, irrelevant and inconsistent as any other yardstick.

(personally opposed to the DP, but there's no reason why the two movements should be joined at the hip)

[Elok]

We can, however, say if there is no brain and no brain activity then nothing is going through it's mind because it doesn't have one. Ergo, not a human being but a ball of cells much like a cancer or a polyp or any other body tissue. It's human tissue but it sure as hell isn't a human. It's no more a living human then the jizz your average 13 year old boy leaves crusted on a gym sock for his mother to find.

Do the words "haploid" and "diploid" mean anything at all to you?

More to the point, why does it matter whether it has a brain or not? It's not going cogito ergo sum in there.

[Dinner]

My point is that it factually proves the claim that zygots are humans to be false. If its not human you can't murder it as some people in this thread have claimed.

Unless I'm guilty of murder when I take a shower and all those human cells get washed off and go down the drain.

[Elok]

No, it doesn't. They still have 46 distinct chromosomes, of the same species as but not in any sense identical to mother or father. The presence or absence of cognitive power has nothing whatever to do with their humanity.

[giblets]

What makes 46 chromosomes a more significant milestone than a harpsichord lesson?

[Aeson]

But why? If you've established cognition as the important quality here, and you're ignoring potential later ability, why is a crow less worthy of your esteem than a human with lesser reasoning powers? Is it just that the human is cuter? What if it's a panda bear genetically engineered to have crow-like reasoning ability? Is it more or less than a baby then?

You're ignoring the fact that we're certain a crow is a crow, and thinks like a crow (at best), and have determined what protections we are willing to give in that specific case.

We are not certain what the brain in the fetus/child is capable of at any given point where we can detect it functioning, and obviously have a predisposition to value human thought as higher than that of animals. I can't stress this enough, outside the basic "happens in the brain" we have no idea what sentience really is. Stop pretending like you know. We are quite certain of what the lack of brain function is capable of in that regard though. It makes perfect sense to protect the fetus/child in absence of certainty about if it qualifies for our litmus test, and to not protect it when it's clear it doesn't meet the measure.

You keep getting that backwards and pretending the stance is opposite what it is so you can show how ludicrous it would be if it were opposite.

[Hauldren Collider]

My point is that it factually proves the claim that zygots are humans to be false. If its not human you can't murder it as some people in this thread have claimed.

Unless I'm guilty of murder when I take a shower and all those human cells get washed off and go down the drain.

You suck at biology.

[MrFun]

[Hauldren Collider]

Bill Maher is about as funny as the holocaust. It's sad--before he became a completely brainless Democrat trashtalker, he was actually a comedian. Now he's just a tasteless and particularly untalented pundit.

[giblets]

Sure, and your remarks always add so much insight to the discussion

[regexcellent]

There would be less single mothers if more people had abortions It's time to own up to the consequences on not getting an abortion. There are so many orphans

This is what I mean by pro-abortion people not really being pro-choice.

[giblets]

This is what I mean by pro-abortion people not really being pro-choice.

I don't want a law requiring anyone to get an abortion. The anti-abortion crowd often wants laws forcing people to adhere to their views instead of having the freedom to make a choice.

[regexcellent]

You seem to think there are situations in which people should get abortions.

As I've said many many times in this thread the reason the anti-abortion crowd wants people to adhere to their views is because they think people who get abortions are murdering people.. That's a perfectly reasonable justification for wanting to ban something--because it is ending human life. Your unwillingness to recognize this fairly simple concept is astounding.