Should children be compelled to finish high school?

[loinburger]

Have fun getting mugged by the disruptive dullards.

All you're doing is making it more difficult for the disruptive dullards to mug people during school hours.

[Hauldren Collider]

My problem is not with people wanting to be a mechanic or a carpenter (and in many cases, that is better than an expensive US degree... or even a cheaper european degree).

My problem is that the two track structure implementation in the US would be such to heavily disenfranchise the disadvantaged. The difference in opportunity between someone who grows up in a suburb in northern virginia and someone who grows up in urban baltimore or rural oregon is already enormous.

JM

How are they disenfranchised? They can still vote. Furthermore, it's not Northern Virginia's fault that it's awesome and rural Oregon sucks. It isn't the federal government's fault, even.

And let's consider--you came from rural Oregon, didn't you? Would you say you lacked opportunities? You're a physics PhD, for christ's sake. It's not like things are out of reach from birth. You might not have the same odds, but you can still achieve if you've got the talent and the desire to do so.

[Al B. Sure!]

It may be a word, but it's used incorrectly. Children receive an education. Singular.
I know you're going to argue, but you will be wrong.

Websters says you're wrong, Slowwhand:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/education

The applicants had comparable educations.

People without educations... applicants had comparable educations...

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Have fun getting mugged by the disruptive dullards.

I have never been mugged.


I think that's at least partly due to the fact that I studied hard at school and university, got a career, and can afford to live in a lovely suburban area with one of the lowest crime rates in the country.

The presence of more dullards in the classroom would not have helped.

[Jon Miller]

And let's consider--you came from rural Oregon, didn't you? Would you say you lacked opportunities? You're a physics PhD, for christ's sake.

Definitely. Introductory calculus was basically self study. Science beyond a first course in chemistry/biology/physics was self study.

I did have some advantages, my father had studied physics in college (and then dropped out to become a microprocessor consultant, then software engineer, he had taught C++ at a college in washington before we moved to Oregon and previously helped design AWACS/etc). My family valued education*. This wasn't true for a lot of my classmates, many of whose parents had been in the timber industry.

JM
(*Despite this I am the only one of my siblings who has graduated college. Both my brothers** are attending, and I expect to graduate within 3 years.)
(**My youngest sibling was born in '84.)

[Jon Miller]

How are they disenfranchised? They can still vote.

Economic power and opportunity is just as important as political power and opportunity in a capitalist society.

JM

[Hauldren Collider]

How would forcing kids to stay in high school make up for the fact that your town's education system wasn't very good?

[Al B. Sure!]

The quality of the education is significantly different between schools, as well. Outside of magnet schools, Philadelphia public schools do not teach calculus, for example.

[Al B. Sure!]

How would forcing kids to stay in high school make up for the fact that your town's education system wasn't very good?

How would letting kids drop-out make up for the fact that they don't have educations?

[loinburger]

How would letting kids drop-out make up for the fact that they don't have educations?

This isn't about education to you, it's about your authoritarian streak. You showed your hand when you brought up prison.

[loinburger]

"We force prisoners to do stuff, so I see nothing wrong with forcing non-criminals to do the same stuff"

[Al B. Sure!]

Let's see...

The new report, in its analysis of 2008 unemployment rates, found that 54 percent of dropouts ages 16 to 24 were jobless, compared with 32 percent for high school graduates of the same age, and 13 percent for those with a college degree.

Young female dropouts were nine times more likely to have become single mothers than young women who went on to earn college degrees, the report said, citing census data for 2006 and 2007.

A 2007 study by Teachers College, Princeton and City University of New York researchers, for instance, estimated that society could save $209,000 in prison and other costs for every potential dropout who could be helped to complete high school.

[loinburger]

Homicides are more likely to be committed by black offenders than by non-black offenders ([citation needed]), so if we just prevented people from being black then homicides would go down!!!

[Jon Miller]

How would forcing kids to stay in high school make up for the fact that your town's education system wasn't very good?

My problem is with saying:
Certain groups of people are not capable/benefited by the most basic education, so we should give up on trying to give them a basic education. Let them be mechanics, dancers, baristas!

What the best way of achieving the goal of an educated populace I am not entirely sure.

I personally would allow kids to fail/be held back, would not put such a great effort trying to teach special needs children in the same vicinity of their age peers , and would free teachers from the 'tyranny' of local/state/union control.

If we* change our attitude towards providing all with economic and educational opportunity, I wouldn't have a problem with a two track educational system (as long as we maintained community colleges which would allow people to switch tracks).

JM
(*And when I say 'we', I mean you and people who think like you.)

[Aeson]

Yes, I know the laws on the books (education is compulsory in PA up to age 17) have proven ineffective, but that doesn't mean we should acquiesce to what is wrong.

Yes, it's ineffective. A waste of resources. So we should do it for an extra year. WTF?