Should children be compelled to finish high school?

[loinburger]

Likewise if Heraclitus had posted it. But asking about a Jon Miller post with an extremely high wink-to-word ratio? What the hell.

[Hauldren Collider]

Al, What do you think two years of high school would do for these kids that 16 years of parenting has failed to accomplish? What makes you think that if these kids stayed in school for two more years, took precalculus and world history, and got a diploma they would turn out differently from the way they are now? You seem to think that the two years of school are the difference between crooks and productive citizens, when the truth is that the dropouts are just weeding themselves out of the system early. Two more years of school won't change them.

Note: I am not trying to say that all dropouts are crooks.

[Jon Miller]

My problem is not with people wanting to be a mechanic or a carpenter (and in many cases, that is better than an expensive US degree... or even a cheaper european degree).

My problem is that the two track structure implementation in the US would be such to heavily disenfranchise the disadvantaged. The difference in opportunity between someone who grows up in a suburb in northern virginia and someone who grows up in urban baltimore or rural oregon is already enormous.

JM

[Al B. Sure!]

Education should be compulsory because teenagers can not be expected to make legitimate life choices at their age. Requiring parental permission is a joke because you actually trust parents with those decisions? When you have high school drop-out mothers who had 2 kids by their 18th birthday or parents who are liquored and drugged up or whatever else, you expect their parental permission to be legitimate?

Call it paternalism, call it a nanny state, but you don't understand life if you think people make legitimate decisions for themselves. Furthermore, these decisions are not made in vacuums but have very concrete effects on society. Does the dealer on the corner have a high school diploma? Does the mugger that pistol whips you and takes your wallet? Both very well could but let's not kid ourselves that high school drop-outs are statistically more likely to commit crimes.

Yes, I know the laws on the books (education is compulsory in PA up to age 17) have proven ineffective, but that doesn't mean we should acquiesce to what is wrong. I believe in the importance of having something to do to stay out of trouble. Obviously, other things need to be done as well to encourage education but, forcing butts into classroom seats at least keeps some teens off the streets.

It's our social responsibility that people have basic educations. And that means not only that they are funded publicly but are compulsory.

[Jon Miller]

Especially with parents education heavily impacts what their child's educational achievement will be.

An education gives you more options, to retool easier. It was amazing what changes in the timber industry did to a timber town. Or what changes in the auto industry did to an auto town. People with an education have an easier time retooling. And generally a large part of the costs of economic changes and the unemployment, gdp loss related to them, is the various costs related with retraining.

I still remember parents crying at my siblings 8th grade graduation because it was wonderful that their kids had achieved so much.... (and no, that family did not value education)

Equal opportunity to education should be provided, to do otherwise is unethical. And yes, that means education should be encouraged in the disenfranchised communities.

JM

[Al B. Sure!]

Look, the fact of the matter is, when you're incarcerated, getting a GED is mandatory in the federal system and mandatory or de facto mandatory in state systems.

How many of you are opposed to compulsory education in prison?

[loinburger]

High school = prison? Awesome

[Al B. Sure!]

High school = prison? Awesome

The teens you let drop-out will be statistically likely to get their GED in prison. Here's an idea. Let's do what we can to prevent their serving prison sentences to begin with.

[Al B. Sure!]

I'm just amazed that people here think that people literally without educations are capable of A) making life-determining decisions with respect to their educations, B) making life-determining decisions with respect to general life (what to do when someone ticks you off, what to do if you're horny and don't have a condom, what to do if you need money, etc.), and C) having job opportunities that don't require a high school diploma that give them less economic cause for committing economic crimes.

People without educations...

[C0ckney]

People without educations...

indeed, some people can't even spell 'education' properly

[Al B. Sure!]

indeed, some people can't even spell 'education' properly

What are you talking about? I spelled it properly. Are you taking issue with the plural form? Educations is the legitimate plural form. It is a countable noun.

(countable) Facts, skills and ideas that have been learned, either formally or informally
He has had a classical education.
The educations our children receive depend on their economic status.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Hell no. Why should the kids who want to get educated have to share a classroom with disruptive dullards who are only there because they're forced to?

[Al B. Sure!]

Hell no. Why should the kids who want to get educated have to share a classroom with disruptive dullards who are only there because they're forced to?

Have fun getting mugged by the disruptive dullards.

[-Jrabbit]

Educations is the legitimate plural form.

It may be a word, but it's used incorrectly. Children receive an education. Singular.
I know you're going to argue, but you will be wrong.

[loinburger]

I'm just amazed that people here think that people literally without educations are capable of A) making life-determining decisions with respect to their educations, B) making life-determining decisions with respect to general life (what to do when someone ticks you off, what to do if you're horny and don't have a condom, what to do if you need money, etc.), and C) having job opportunities that don't require a high school diploma that give them less economic cause for committing economic crimes.

A&B: How is a student going to be better off by flunking two years of high school than by dropping out? Or are you going to do something like bring back corporal punishment in order to motivate those students?
C: Are these low-paying jobs (that force people to commit crimes) going to disappear when everybody has a high school diploma? No - the students who got "gentleman's D's" for their last two years of high school (because their teachers weren't allowed to flunk them out) just going to wind up in the same jobs that they'd have ended up in had they dropped out.

If you want to reform the educational system, then I support that motive - however, I suggest you do sooner, not at the third year of high school.