Watching "Drugs, Inc."

[giblets]

I mean her babies as she raises them (or others like her).

And taking kids form a messed up situation is often about as bad as leaving them in a messed up situation (that is why they usually only do it if the situation is really screwed up). My mom works in the field, my sister is probably going to lose hers, and I have 3 adopted siblings (who were abused prior).

The cost is really high.

If we had some deal where you could shoot up what you want as long as you get your ovaries/testes removed or whatever, might be something to consider.

JM

Yep, we should arrest cocaine users and put them in prison for something they could possibly do in the future. That sounds very just. Likewise maybe we should persecute gun owners because they could possibly go on a shooting rampage.

[Jon Miller]

Yep, we should arrest cocaine users and put them in prison for something they could possibly do in the future. That sounds very just. Likewise maybe we should persecute gun owners because they could possibly go on a shooting rampage.

Where did I argue that cocaine users should be put in prison? Or drug users in general?

Ass.

JM

[Berzerker]

The drug war led to crack cocaine, Nixon declared war on pot because them damn hippies and traffickers started moving cocaine and heroin. Then Reagan declared his war and penalties for adults busted "dealing" increased leading to the mass recruitment of kids into the drug trade and the violent crime rate soared.

[Jon Miller]

There is a good argument that people go to 'worse' drugs because 'good' drugs are illegal.

No one would ever use krokadil if they had access to better drugs, I think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desomorphine

Doesn't mean that krokadil should ever be legal.

I would argue that we should start with legalizing pot and a more euro-style response to heroin/etc. Then see where to go from there.

JM

[Elok]

There is no such thing as a crack baby. Just another of the lies you've been fed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_cocaine_exposure

I actually wasn't all that familiar with the phenomenon described/debunked there; I used the term as a convenient shorthand for "child born addicted to crack." In general, I agree that the war on drugs is pointless. However,

I would argue that we should start with legalizing pot and a more euro-style response to heroin/etc. Then see where to go from there.

I would prefer this approach of cautious, gradual legalization starting with decriminalizing individual possession of marijuana.

EDIT: Hmm, article also says it's unclear whether kids are likely to become addicted in utero.

[giblets]

Where did I argue that cocaine users should be put in prison? Or drug users in general?

Ass.

JM

So you plan on not allowing people to use cocaine unless they cut out their ovaries/testes but you get offended when people assume you want to punish people who break the law with a prison sentence? I mean, if the government simply decreed that you're not allowed to use cocaine unless you're infertile but the government didn't offer any punishment for fertile people who used cocaine anyway then the government decree wouldn't mean a thing. Don't be an ass.

[Jon Miller]

I am actually pretty sure there is 100% correlation between 'drug addicted mom' and 'neglected/abused children'.

JM

[giblets]

There is a good argument that people go to 'worse' drugs because 'good' drugs are illegal.

No one would ever use krokadil if they had access to better drugs, I think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desomorphine

Doesn't mean that krokadil should ever be legal.

I would argue that we should start with legalizing pot and a more euro-style response to heroin/etc. Then see where to go from there.

JM

Yeah, krokadil should be illegal but people who use it shouldn't be punished in any way. Let's have laws with no mechanism for enforcing them. Or maybe we could fine krokadil users, rather than legalizing krokadil and taxing it, because that somehow makes sense. Or maybe krokadil users should be forced to go into "rehab clinics" which isn't imprisonment because we call it something else. But what's clear is that telling other people that they can't do something to their bodies without your consent doesn't make you an ass.

[Jon Miller]

But what's clear is that telling other people that they can't do something to their bodies without your consent doesn't make you an ass.

It is to any reasonable person.

We don't allow children to do whatever they want. The same with those who act like children or who 'by their actions' will definitely be harming others.

Just like we don't let someone with a sniper rifle barricade themselves on the top of a tower...

You being an ass is entirely separate from the position that you are arguing. Rather it is that you put positions and arguments into my mouth that I do not hold.

Ass.

JM

[giblets]

It is to any reasonable person.

We don't allow children to do whatever they want. The same with those who act like children or who 'by their actions' will definitely be harming others.

Just like we don't let someone with a sniper rifle barricade themselves on the top of a tower...

You being an ass is entirely separate from the position that you are arguing. Rather it is that you put positions and arguments into my mouth that I do not hold.

Ass.

JM

It is very common for people to support the imprisonment of cocaine users and unusual for someone to want to make something illegal without establishing any punishments for it. It was very natural for me to think you wanted to put them in prison. However you seem to have a very short fuse and will quickly call someone an "ass" when they mistake your position for one that is less confusing. You even skip a couple lines when you write "ass" for extra emphasis. Wow, you really are a model of civility!

Also, it's very "ass"-like to compare injecting a drug into your body to barricading yourself into a tower with a sniper rifer. Setting up a sniper nest in the middle of a city gives people a very good reason to suspect that your intent is to harm others. And of course, it's rather "ass"-like to claim that anyone who uses a drug that you would never use is stupid like a child.

[Jon Miller]

Anyone who uses 'kokadil' is showing less wisdom than most children.

I would say mentally ill.

The US is the main country which imprisons most of it's drug addicts. Other countries have other mechanisms.

You are an ass in how you argue with me, it isn't this particular occurrence although it is your usual behavior.

JM

[Elok]

Does anyone know anything about the underlying "culture" of krokodil? My research ability is limited because Google keeps assuming I want pages in Spanish...anyway, given the unbelievably detrimental effects of the drug (I'm finding pages that claim the necrotized flesh literally falls off your body), what drives consumption? Given the way the drug can be homemade from OTC ingredients, "pushers" don't seem a likely culprit. How do people get so hopeless that they'll willingly ingest something famous for destroying its users?

[Tupac Shakur]

The older I get, the more I realize how ****ing repugnant it is to tell people what they can and cannot do to themselves, or what they can or cannot sell to other people in voluntary exchanges.

[Jon Miller]

Does anyone know anything about the underlying "culture" of krokodil? My research ability is limited because Google keeps assuming I want pages in Spanish...anyway, given the unbelievably detrimental effects of the drug (I'm finding pages that claim the necrotized flesh literally falls off your body), what drives consumption? Given the way the drug can be homemade from OTC ingredients, "pushers" don't seem a likely culprit. How do people get so hopeless that they'll willingly ingest something famous for destroying its users?

Because they are addicts, they are not rational at all.

JM

[Tupac Shakur]

They also can't buy safe desomorphine made by professionals.