Question about Mary Jane

[Berzerker]

That's right I'm a christian. I believe that law enforcement is christian. But to you that's psychopathy. Whatever.

You're calling people psychopaths, not me... I merely asked why you think its justified to kill people to save lives while other people are psychopaths for having the same opinion.

Berzerker,

I'm not sure why I should have to say this but FOR THE SAKE OF LAW AND ORDER I accept that there will be deaths because of law enforcement. That's obviously different from saying that it's ok to kill one person to save another.

So killing people is justified for the sake of law and order but not to save lives?

[giblets]

Without law and order, society would collapse and we would all die. So if you want to kill people to maintain law and order, you are a psychopath.

[DaShi]

Umm, guys...Kid is genuinely retarded, so it's a bit insensitive to be so mean about it.

[Kidlicious]

Intelligence and impulse control are two entirely different things. Also, you appear to be talking about something which has no relation to psychopathy.

People with poor impulse control don't function well so that's not intelligent, but then how do you define intelligence? But my point is that people with that personality type can function well in many cases.
Why do you think I'm talking about something else? Don't you think people like Stalin were psychopaths?

[Elok]

Wait, did you get your ideas about psychopathy from that guy who wrote a book a year or two back claiming most CEOs are supposed to be psychopaths? I forget his name, but he was on the Daily Show. Anyway, if you're referring to him, that doesn't exactly count as "what psychologists say." It's a pop-psych riff by *one* psychologist. You might as well quote one of Dawkin's opinions from The Selfish Gene as "what biology says."

[Kidlicious]

You're calling people psychopaths, not me... I merely asked why you think its justified to kill people to save lives while other people are psychopaths for having the same opinion.



So killing people is justified for the sake of law and order but not to save lives?

I'm not saying utilitarianism is psychopathy, but the extreme case is. More precisely it depends on the personality in question.

[Kidlicious]

No. I didn't think CEOs were psychopaths.

[Elok]

People with poor impulse control don't function well so that's not intelligent, but then how do you define intelligence?

Suppose I'm a Nobel Prize-winning physicist. I read and understood Newton's work on classical mechanics at the age of ten. I can multiply two four-digit numbers together in my head. I've revolutionized my field with brilliant, elegant formulations that solved a number of age-old problems. However, I've been in jail a number of times after assaulting people who criticized my work, and I've never been married because I blow off dates as soon as an interesting problem comes to mind. Would you categorize me as smart or stupid?

But my point is that people with that personality type can function well in many cases.

People with APD can function in society, but it takes an effort they're often not interested in making due to their difficulties with long-term planning and self-control.

Why do you think I'm talking about something else? Don't you think people like Stalin were psychopaths?

No, he was just a colossal *******. Also probably mentally unbalanced in a number of other ways. But I suspect someone genuinely psychopathic would have been much less focused and consistent, and would have accomplished much less. Most of the famous psychopaths really are serial killers. Maybe Bernie Madoff? Probably not. He was completely amoral, but he kept it up for a really long time and I don't think he had any trouble with the law before it all came crashing down.

[Kidlicious]

Well ok intelligence is different from impulse control, but a lot of psychopaths don't have poor impulse control. They function in normal environments. Many politicians have the personality type. And yes Stalin, Hitler etc were psychopaths. Hitler probably didn't have good impulse control but he managed to function.

[Elok]

Okay, where are you getting all this from?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Psychopathy_Checklist

Lists criteria of psychopathy including:
-Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
-Poor behavioral control
-Lack of realistic long-term goals
-Impulsivity
-Irresponsibility

However, the term "psychopath" is somewhat controversial, and the APA prefers the term Antisocial Personality Disorder. DSM-IV lists criteria for ASPD including "impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead," "consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations," and "irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults." Along with the usual lying and criminal behavior.

The WHO's criteria include "incapacity to maintain enduring relationships," "very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence," and "incapacity to experience guilt and to profit from experience, particularly punishment." Again, along with the usual viciousness. Do you get the picture? We're not just talking mean here, we're talking irrationally, self-destructively mean.

[Al B. Sure!]

So Hitler and Stalin wouldn't be psychopaths then. Cause they got **** done.

[Kidlicious]

I'm saying that one psychopath can have more impulse control than another, but can have equal lack of remorse.

Also, psychopaths have "qualities" that help them succeed (in the short term at least) such as charm and manipulativeness.

Your own source says that they can be successfull.

[Elok]

I'd say it's less likely. Of course, I'm not a shrink or anything, but they don't sound like it to me. Your typical psycho supposedly starts bouncing in and out of incarceration during adolescence.

XPost

[Al B. Sure!]

Yeah I think this is a 'banality of evil' situation, Elok. It's easy to think that the likes of Hitler or Stalin were some sort of unhuman monsters with an extreme psychological disorder but the reality was probably that they were both very much psychologically normal.

[Aeson]

I'd say it's less likely. Of course, I'm not a shrink or anything, but they don't sound like it to me. Your typical psycho supposedly starts bouncing in and out of incarceration during adolescence.

So does your typical wigger... but that didn't stop Vanilla Ice from unleashing his atrocities upon the world...