What if: US marines vs Roman legions

[kentonio]

Who's picking them off in ambushes? Do the Romans know how to make IEDs? These are battle hardened men, who've fought insurgencies for a solid decade. They're not going to be killed by bandits with swords.

In towns you'd definately lose odd men to swords, but out in the woods its arrows you're more likely to be losing men to. Compared to today theres an awful lot of trees back then, and getting close enough to put an arrow in someone is something the ancients can do.

The language would be less of an issue given how many Marines speak Spanish or other Romance language. A Spanish speaker could make themselves understood by Romans, at least for simple things like bread, friend, or peace. They'd certainly be better off dealing with Romans than Afghans or Iraqis.

I could be talking complete crap here because I don't know much about the entymology of Latin, but did it remain a pure language? Most languages evolve even before you start taking accents and dialects into account.

We don't necessarily understand every aspect of the culture, but it's not completely alien. Marines would have seen Gladiator or Rome, and they'd know the basic gist of how things work.

This I'm not convinced by, most of what we think we know about the culture and practices of Rome are just educated guesses at best. TV and movies would probably give them more false ideas than true ones.

And they do have a mission - the mission is to do whatever they're told to do by their superior officers. Assuming that the officers are decent, and American officers are pretty damn good, I think that they'd be fine as far as all of this goes.

Kind of a morally questionable mission though, no? Kill, occupy etc, not for any greater cause other than survival and then what? dominance? The marine leader has noone to report to, does that make him decide to become a King himself? Do the other officers think this is something they'd like to see? So many possibilities, but I don't see some smooth military operation here, too much is out of any of their experiences.

[Felch]

Impact of stone missiles are said to be noisy and lethal/injuring when it splinters - kind of part of the concept.

Do the stone missiles move faster than sound? Are they packed with high explosives? It's like comparing a sling shot to a grenade launcher.

[kentonio]

The Romans will never see bullets. All they know is men are falling dead with gruesome wounds.

They believe completely in gods. Gods of war, gods of battle, gods of death. They'd probably deal with it a lot better than we would today.

[Flubber]

In what siege did the Romans face gunpowder weapons?

OR any weapon that could smite them from a distance-- completely unseen-- as well as being struck from above

A catapult you see the weapon and you see what it fired- you have them yourself and understand the tactic


How would the Romans cope with a rainfall of rocks -- I am assuming from acouple of thousand feet up, even the smaller stones could be fatal-- toss in a grenade or two for fun--

Or the sniper with Night vision goggles? Have 8 or 10 of the guys ringing the Roman camp and they take turns taking a shot-- Time it exactly with some Roman measurement of time-- so every 10 minutes another guy dies-- any patrols -- they die-- So the Romans huddle in camp -- If they try to move out in numbers-- do another crushed stone surprise

amnd please please do not argue that marines would be incapable of finding or creating crushed stone and dropping it from sufficient height to cause damage

Oh ya-- a blinding spotlight from the heavens every now again would be a hoot as well

[giblets]

The Romans will never see bullets. All they know is men are falling dead with gruesome wounds.

Congrats I guess, the marines would have the same advantage over the romans as any modern army.

[BlackCat]

In actually think it initially works better if they hardly hear the shot-- its just -- dead-- dead-- but then again in this scenario most of what I am posting is all about fooling with the Romans heads-- I think after 1 or two legions come back with stories of lightning bolts and fire breathing monsters-- say a tank-- and 3/4 of their men dead or disappeared the Roamns would be hesitant-- If any other legion that gets within 50 miles has a rainfall of rocks fall on it-- what could they think other than they are going against the gods

Certainly, the mindset will have an effect, but I'm not sure that it will end up in total panic. Legionaries are pretty diciplined and the experinced has seen things that a US marine never will see.

Another thing is that I doubt the marines will use blast off their arty munition since it would be ireplaceable and in low stock.

[BlackCat]

No. A catapult announces its payload from a distance. You see a rock flying towards you and crashing into a wall.

Getting sniped at is a completely different concept.

If you are behind a wall you neither see nor hear anything - it just hits you out of nowhere.

[Al B. Sure!]

They believe completely in gods. Gods of war, gods of battle, gods of death. They'd probably deal with it a lot better than we would today.

So the Marines are gods or demi-gods. Mission Accomplished.

[Flubber]

They believe completely in gods. Gods of war, gods of battle, gods of death. They'd probably deal with it a lot better than we would today.

They would likely believe they were fighting gods-- maybe the first legion faces a tank and a pair of APCS and all they do is run over Legionares-- Those transport aircraft would again warn of the location of anything that could remotely harm the vehicles ( what would there be-- flaming oil perhaps-- I am not up on all Roman available weapons-- but if such a thing existed, an RPG should take care of it ( although the Marines might prefer to keep oils for their own use)

Most of what I am suggesting is that the Marines try to keep their myth going-- Then if they send out some folks to trade or whatever they would be the mortals that serve those gods-- They might lose some men but if they let it be known that the gods would bring reprisals against anyone that harmed them, they might be ok. If they knew the location of any large armed bands, they could even go into villages dressed as Romans and demand a small tribute-- 50 men armed with swords should be enough to cow most villages (it would explain their language issues too)na d most likely villagers in the region would be accustomed to paying tribute

[Tupac Shakur]

I don't think they were supermen at ALL but I am assuming that they don't drop down and face 11 Legions immediately

Facing eleven Legions at once is the best case scenario for the Marines, as it would allow them to wipe out organized resistance before their supplies start to run out and the Romans learn that they can't face the Marines in open battle. Time is on the Romans' side, as they can use guerilla tactics to wear down the small Marine force as it bleeds supplies and unit cohesion.

Who's picking them off in ambushes? Do the Romans know how to make IEDs? These are battle hardened men, who've fought insurgencies for a solid decade. They're not going to be killed by bandits with swords.

The Marines aren't going to be able to stay together forever once they start having to foraging for food, and they do have to sleep sometime.

[Felch]

In towns you'd definately lose odd men to swords, but out in the woods its arrows you're more likely to be losing men to. Compared to today theres an awful lot of trees back then, and getting close enough to put an arrow in someone is something the ancients can do.

Oh, the ancients had magical powers that let them shoot arrows through MTVs? How long would a town remain standing after the first Marine was stabbed?

I could be talking complete crap here because I don't know much about the entymology of Latin, but did it remain a pure language? Most languages evolve even before you start taking accents and dialects into account.

In Latin, bread is pane, friend is amicus, and peace is pax.

In Spanish, bread is pan, friend is amigo, and peace is paz.

There were regional variations in Latin, that later developed into the modern Romance languages. Overall, the basic words, the ones from ancient times, would hold up from Latin to Spanish, French, or whatever.

This I'm not convinced by, most of what we think we know about the culture and practices of Rome are just educated guesses at best. TV and movies would probably give them more false ideas than true ones.

So the Romans didn't speak with British accents, and they didn't get their hair done by Hollywood makeup artists. We still aren't that ignorant as a society. Writings survive from Plutarch, Cicero, Tacitus, and others. Out of 2000 Marines, enough of them would be history nerds to have a pretty good idea of what was going on.

Kind of a morally questionable mission though, no? Kill, occupy etc, not for any greater cause other than survival and then what? dominance? The marine leader has noone to report to, does that make him decide to become a King himself? Do the other officers think this is something they'd like to see? So many possibilities, but I don't see some smooth military operation here, too much is out of any of their experiences.

There'd be a colonel in command. His job is to not be the pussy that you mistake him for. He's been fighting wars for most of his adult life, and he's probably comfortable making decisions. Hell, he'd be ecstatic to be able to run wild without a bunch of bull**** oversight. The junior officers, and enlisted men will fall into place, because that's what they do. They're not wine-sipping hippie tree-huggers. They're battle-hardened killing machines. They signed up for this kind of ****. Conquering the Roman Empire would be the coolest thing any of them could possibly imagine. ****, I wish I could do it.

[BlackCat]

Oh, the ancients had magical powers that let them shoot arrows through MTVs?

Don't need to - head, arms and legs will suffice.

How long would a town remain standing after the first Marine was stabbed?

How long would they have ammo for such ?

[Tupac Shakur]

How long would a town remain standing after the first Marine was stabbed?

Weren't you just saying that the Marines have a decades' experience fighting counterinsurgency? Destroying a town over one dead Marine is a terrible idea.

[Flubber]

Certainly, the mindset will have an effect, but I'm not sure that it will end up in total panic. Legionaries are pretty diciplined and the experinced has seen things that a US marine never will see.

Another thing is that I doubt the marines will use blast off their arty munition since it would be ireplaceable and in low stock.

They have seen rocks raining from the heavens-- you say they keep coming after all the stuff I would hit them with that uses minimal fuel-- Theres a reason I have the marines dropping rocks--


My theory is that say two hours with 3 vehicles would smass and crush so many Legionares that they run-- what man fights a monster that is impervious to sword and spear-- Snipers kill any mounted men-- let the rest to to spread the tale-- Rome will get the sketchiest of accounts

The next legion finds their officers start dying 50 miles from the pervious battle and at night there is death rain-- They are 3 days away from where they think the battle is and suddenly everyone in the General's tent is DEAD-- Kill the next few leaders and sooner or later you get to the guy that turns around to get orders


Anyone like the dropping rocks idea--??

[Felch]

Don't need to - head, arms and legs will suffice.

If bows and arrows worked against modern infantry, people would still use them.

How long would they have ammo for such ?

They're bringing along most of their supplies. That would mean hundreds of round per Marine, maybe a quarter of a million bullets? I don't know the exact figures, but that's certainly a reasonable number to bring. How many hundreds of thousands of people would they have to kill before they got their message across?