What if: US marines vs Roman legions

[kentonio]

Who needs roads?

The Romans will need roads more than the Marines.

Humvees don't need roads.

How do humvees do through woods?

[Al B. Sure!]

How do humvees do through woods?

[Al B. Sure!]

Anyway the Italian peninsula by the time of the Empire was largely deforested.

[Flubber]

:

I'm one of the few serious people posting in this thread with all the ***** who think Marines are some sort of supermen rather than normal, not that bright members of modern American society.

I don't think they were supermen at ALL but I am assuming that they don't drop down and face 11 Legions immediately-- Its one Legion and tactics of the time would be a Roman march forward in formation right-- The marines would have modern binoculars and transport aircrat right? and most battlefields favored by the Romans would be big open fields right?

In the first battle, the Romans would have no idea what they faced-- The Marines fly 1-2 transport aircraft overhead and drop rocks on the formations of Romans-- Do it from high enough that they don't even spot you or make out what you are . Sniper guys start picking off the leaders-- Marines know tactics so limited ammo means you only shoot when you have a target- The transport aircraft lets you know about any archers so you can let the sword or spear guys to get close and kill them--Every bullet means a fallen Legionare-- 1000 Marines means 50,000 bullets-- No advancing allowed-- they just wait for the Romans to come down and die-- then you use your transports to put squads on hilltops to kill every officer you see retreating (even 10 miles away)-- let the common soldiers go


The result would be fragmented stories of a magical army that smote them from a distance-- NO idea what really happened


Take the Legions food and find another battlefield-- Use and horses or oxen to carry and drag things-- even Humvees and tanks to the extent possible--Forage and try to build a secure base-- hell almost anything on a hill with access to the ocean and wide open fields of fire would work. Scout sparingly with your choppers-- a 30 minute flight each day should be enough to tell you if a Legion is coming-- when you find the next legion-- drop a squad on a nearby hilltop with night vision goggle and your best snipers-- then have the chopper drop rocks and maybe a grenade or two for the show on the generals tent

Leave a "talking Box" in their way and proclaim that they have displeased the gods etc etc

Do you really think the legions keep coming when whenever they come in force-- all their senior officers are smitten from the heavens-- Kill or frighten off 2-3 Legions this way , all the time you are trying to establish your own civilization

I don't think Marines are supermen but they should have enough interesting trinkets to trade and if they could fish, take the food of advancing legions, trade and yes TAKE if necessary-- I don't think they starve to death-- Now with their tanks and Abrams and Humvees largely parked they conserve their fuel-- Its all about long term

I agree if they mount a campaign and try to hold rome they die. But if they are content to secure a foothold and build slowly-- Lets say they protect neighboring vilages from marauders-- If they could do that I think they could develop weaponry and abilities


My only problem with this plan-- How many men and how many women in a typical MEU-- IF we assume say 1900 to 100 thats a LOT of horny marines that would probably not mind a little raping and pillaging

[BlackCat]

The Romans would lose their **** when the Marines start firing. They will never have heard anything like the sound of a rifle in their lives. It will be like thunder or a volcano eruption...

A few Marine snipers with Barrett M82's, hidden half a mile away while the Romans approach. A clap of an unholy thunder and a man is struck down, a limb sheared off by a .50 cal round. They would think the Marines have the power of Zeus' lightning bolts!

Sure, the romans has never heard thunder or volcanoes erupt. Even their battles was quiet and mellow when it comes to sounds. Also the sounds of city life was probably more like a farmland village

Likewise with artillery. Old time artillery didn't make noise on impact, so yeah, they would certainly be scared

[Al B. Sure!]

Sure, the romans has never heard thunder or volcanoes erupt. Even their battles was quiet and mellow when it comes to sounds. Also the sounds of city life was probably more like a farmland village

Likewise with artillery. Old time artillery didn't make noise on impact, so yeah, they would certainly be scared

You're an idiot. BOOM! From out of nowhere, your buddy's arm is blasted straight off. BOOM! The guy to your left is now headless and you're covered in his blood, brains, and skull fragments. AND YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IS HAPPENING!

That would be so unfathomable to the Romans. They'd have no analogy to relate it to but that they are getting struck down by Zeus.

Our modern minds can think, 'we must be getting shot by an unseen sniper in the distance', but the Romans would have no conception of anything like this. They see arrows from a distance, they see the arrow strike someone and see it sticking out from the wound... all they experience here would be a BOOM and a guy goes down simultaneously from apparently nothing.

If you've never experienced a firearm, an unseen sniper in the distance would not be interpreted as someone is shooting at us. It would be god striking men down.

[Felch]

The marines could probably smash any organized defense of course, but you have 2000 modern Americans thousands of years from home, grieving for lost families, clinging to their sanity and getting picked off by ambush. They don't speak the language, they don't understand the culture and they don't have a mission.

Who's picking them off in ambushes? Do the Romans know how to make IEDs? These are battle hardened men, who've fought insurgencies for a solid decade. They're not going to be killed by bandits with swords.

The language would be less of an issue given how many Marines speak Spanish or other Romance language. A Spanish speaker could make themselves understood by Romans, at least for simple things like bread, friend, or peace. They'd certainly be better off dealing with Romans than Afghans or Iraqis. We don't necessarily understand every aspect of the culture, but it's not completely alien. Marines would have seen Gladiator or Rome, and they'd know the basic gist of how things work.

And they do have a mission - the mission is to do whatever they're told to do by their superior officers. Assuming that the officers are decent, and American officers are pretty damn good, I think that they'd be fine as far as all of this goes.

[Flubber]

The marines could probably smash any organized defense of course, but you have 2000 modern Americans thousands of years from home, grieving for lost families, clinging to their sanity and getting picked off by ambush. They don't speak the language, they don't understand the culture and they don't have a mission. If the Romans are going to be freaked out to **** (which they are) spare a second for how completely fried the marines are going to feel Al.

THat all would be a huge problem but I will assume that the officers will give them some hope that they can get back-- in fact it would be so inexplicable that most would see it as impossible that they don't get back-- I also think the survival instinct clicks in-- OK there are 10000 guys with sword coming-- yes hahahaha swords but if they catch you they will cit you to pieces and feed you your private parts-- Ready aim fire

Ambush could be a small problem-- but after the first battle they could appropriate enough local clothing to try to blend in-- at least for some small scouting parties that could be travellers looking to trade-- ON my general model though, the Marines try to take and hold a secure location and build a civilization-- So I am thinking a walled town would be their goal -- They could go out dressed totally different to maintain the myth of the supermen

[BlackCat]

You're an idiot. BOOM! From out of nowhere, your buddy's arm is blasted straight off. BOOM! The guy to your left is now headless and you're covered in his blood, brains, and skull fragments. AND YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IS HAPPENING!

That would be so unfathomable to the Romans. They'd have no analogy to relate it to but that they are getting struck down by Zeus.

Our modern minds can think, 'we must be getting shot by an unseen sniper in the distance', but the Romans would have no conception of anything like this. They see arrows from a distance, they see the arrow strike someone and see it sticking out from the wound... all they experience here would be a BOOM and a guy goes down simultaneously from apparently nothing.

Ermn, no, it's you that are an idiot - the same happens in a standard roman siege attack. True, the casualities will be higher, but when they connect the dots, they probably are smart enough to connect the dots and change strategy.

[Felch]

In what siege did the Romans face gunpowder weapons?

[Flubber]

Sure, the romans has never heard thunder or volcanoes erupt. Even their battles was quiet and mellow when it comes to sounds. Also the sounds of city life was probably more like a farmland village

Likewise with artillery. Old time artillery didn't make noise on impact, so yeah, they would certainly be scared

In actually think it initially works better if they hardly hear the shot-- its just -- dead-- dead-- but then again in this scenario most of what I am posting is all about fooling with the Romans heads-- I think after 1 or two legions come back with stories of lightning bolts and fire breathing monsters-- say a tank-- and 3/4 of their men dead or disappeared the Roamns would be hesitant-- If any other legion that gets within 50 miles has a rainfall of rocks fall on it-- what could they think other than they are going against the gods

[BlackCat]

In what siege did the Romans face gunpowder weapons?

Impact of stone missiles are said to be noisy and lethal/injuring when it splinters - kind of part of the concept.

[Al B. Sure!]

I DanSed and added this:

"If you've never experienced a firearm, an unseen sniper in the distance would not be interpreted as someone is shooting at us. It would be god striking men down."

I don't think you appreciate just how foreign a firearm is to someone who has not experienced it before.

Hell, there's no reason to let the Romans know about 'fire-sticks'. A Barrett M82 has an effective range of 1800m. They can just pick off the centurions from half a mile away and all it will look like is Zeus' Wrath for approaching the Marines.

[Al B. Sure!]

Impact of stone missiles are said to be noisy and lethal/injuring when it splinters - kind of part of the concept.

No. A catapult announces its payload from a distance. You see a rock flying towards you and crashing into a wall.

Getting sniped at is a completely different concept.

[Al B. Sure!]

The Romans will never see bullets. All they know is men are falling dead with gruesome wounds.