Why do I feel bad for the Spaniards, but not the Greeks?

[DaShi]

LordShiva

Like most Harvard students, LordShiva likely had his soul and sense of humor sucked out of him and replaced with a titanium rod from brainstem to anus.

[Zoetstofzoetje]

Blonde highlights from the hairdresser don't count.

Seriously, bro:

Para Cantabria, segun Hoyos Sainz, los porcentajes de cabellos rubios son 11%, castaño claros 14%, rojos 1%, castaños 24%, castaño oscuros 24% y negros 28%. En cuanto al color de los ojos, los azules son el 9%, grises 6%, verdes 12%, verde-castaño claro 13%, castaño claro 17%, castaño oscuro 43%.
España en general, segun Carleton Coon, los cabellos rubios y castaños claros son el 17% y los negros el 29%, los ojos azules y verdes son el 18%. En Andalucia los rubios son el 10% los ojos azules el 10% y los castaños el 60%.
Segun Hoyos Sainz para España en conjunto los rubios son el 14,5%, siendo los extremos la region de Tierra de campos con un 4% de rubios y el pirineo aragones con un 30%. Los ojos claros llegan al 35% en el norte de Navarra, 21% en el valle del Ebro y Cataluña y tan solo un 12% en Canarias.
El estudio de coloracion capilar de loreal, el mas reciente refleja un 10% de cabellos rubios en España en su conjunto y un 21% de cabelos negros, los ojos castaños son el 66%. Por comunidades el mayor porcentaje de cabelos rubios se da en el norte en Galicia, Asturias y Cantabria con un 15% frente a Cataluña y Baleares con tan solo un 4,6% de rubios.

Minimum in one region: 4.6%
Average: 10/11-ish%
Max in one region: 15%

[Zoetstofzoetje]

Dutch finance minister just said that EU cannot eject Greece from the Euro. Simply because there are no rules or regulations to govern such a transition. So exactly what is going to happen is a mystery.

[Barnabas]

I can think of more blonde Spanish men than of blonde Spanish women, probably because women tend to mess with their hair colour, but if blonde Spanish men exist, the female counterpart must exist too.

Yes, they are a minority, but Spain has around 40 million spaniards.

[Kitschum]

Minimum in one region: 4.6%
Average: 10/11-ish%
Max in one region: 15%

Haha. And how was "rubio" defined? Anyway it reminded me of this for some reason:

I've gotten this line more than once from Iranians: "You know that there are blue-eyed people in Iran?? It's true, but you ignorant Westerners don't recognize it!" As if that's supposed to make them somehow more like us, and less like Islamo-Fascist savages, or whatever.

[Barnabas]

In Argentina we had a very similar crisis when we pegged our currency to the dollar. We had become too expensive, and after Brazil's 1999 devaluation our factories begun to move to Brazil.
Finally we had to devaluate.
If we had managed to resist 2 years more, Bush jr, by ruining the American Economy and making the dollar less valuable, would have made us competitive again and we would not have needed to devaluate. The strong American economy under Clinton and his superavits had made the dollar a very strong currency in the late 90s.

When we devaluated we knew that in order to become competitive, we would have to go from 1 peso = 1 dollar to 1.40 pesos = 1 dollar (because the davaluation was chaotic it ended up as 3 pesos 1 dollar) but since we knew that, I imagine greeks and spaniards know how much they should devaluate in order to become competitive.

If they can't leave the euro, perhaps the government and companies can decide to cut all wages by 20%, it would be extreme but then the situation is extreme. That would be like devaluating without leaving the euro. There is no difference between getting your salary cut 20% and earning the same ammount in a currency that has become 20% cheaper.

[Kitschum]

I think a problem is a lot of Greeks have gotten used to a lifestyle they can't quite maintain. Devaluation is a possible out but it's a massive adjustment, and the problem in the first place is that the Greeks don't seem like they want to change. Everything is somebody else's problem. "It's the bankers that done it" - yes, partly, but you're ****ed all the same!

I'm not sure the Spanish belong in the same discussion. They have a massive unemployment problem, and had a property bubble in tourist areas, but seem fairly sound otherwise, relative to the region they're in anyway. It's no surprise the OP is more sympathetic to them.

[Barnabas]

I imagine that by blonde they mean people like Emilio Butragueño



But then it is relative, I think many Spaniards considered blonde in Spain would be seen a brown haired in Northern Europe

[Kitschum]

I agree. He wouldn't be blond if he moved to Scandinavia.

[Az]

There is no difference between getting your salary cut 20% and earning the same ammount in a currency that has become 20% cheaper.

Of course there is, if most of your consumption is nominated in your local currency and stays relatively stable.
This is the little question, of course, will it?

[N35t0r]

If they can't leave the euro, perhaps the government and companies can decide to cut all wages by 20%, it would be extreme but then the situation is extreme. That would be like devaluating without leaving the euro. There is no difference between getting your salary cut 20% and earning the same ammount in a currency that has become 20% cheaper.

Then again, there might be a bit of chaos if they try to do that...

[KrazyHorse]

Of course there is, if most of your consumption is nominated in your local currency and stays relatively stable.
This is the little question, of course, will it?

Az, the central bank can't control the real rate of exchange in the long run. Anybody who thinks it can is nuts.

[KrazyHorse]

In Argentina we had a very similar crisis when we pegged our currency to the dollar. We had become too expensive, and after Brazil's 1999 devaluation our factories begun to move to Brazil.
Finally we had to devaluate.
If we had managed to resist 2 years more, Bush jr, by ruining the American Economy and making the dollar less valuable, would have made us competitive again and we would not have needed to devaluate. The strong American economy under Clinton and his superavits had made the dollar a very strong currency in the late 90s.

When we devaluated we knew that in order to become competitive, we would have to go from 1 peso = 1 dollar to 1.40 pesos = 1 dollar (because the davaluation was chaotic it ended up as 3 pesos 1 dollar) but since we knew that, I imagine greeks and spaniards know how much they should devaluate in order to become competitive.

If they can't leave the euro, perhaps the government and companies can decide to cut all wages by 20%, it would be extreme but then the situation is extreme. That would be like devaluating without leaving the euro. There is no difference between getting your salary cut 20% and earning the same ammount in a currency that has become 20% cheaper.

In addition to wages, there is also the issue of debts (both private and public)

[Pax]

It's great how even in a thread not about the u.s. someone always has too take the time out to slam the u.s.

[Az]

Az, the central bank can't control the real rate of exchange in the long run. Anybody who thinks it can is nuts.

Oooh, I remember us having this discussion before.

Ahh, the good old asymptotic spherical long run in a vacuum, as they say about this sort of modeling in Russia.
Well, yes, in the long run, maybe not. But in the short and medium runs, devaluing and controlling your exchange rate has been a solid policy, and has produced interesting results. That's why China has been doing it for ages, that's why Israel has been doing it for quite a while, that's why the Swiss central bank is doing it ( Although, there, they seem to be poised to do it in the most stupid fashion possible, by declaring a rate they are going to protect )

In any case, the discussion was not about some "long term", and in the short term, perishability of goods and transportation costs will keep local prices under control. We can even use Israel as a case study in the last couple of years, where a flexible rate of 3.5-3.8 NIS to USD has been protected sporadically by the BoI. The main increases in prices were housing ( created by a host of other reasons, and prices just returning to 1993 levels if we control for inflation) and food, also created by a host of other reasons.

Simply put, this sort of temporary, "short run" control, can cause structural changes in the real economy of the country, just the sort the central bank was hoping for. More capital foreign investment due to lower local costs nominated in the currency of country of origin (both fixed and variable), a nice, liquid reserve of foreign currency ( "Liquid" May not apply if you own a significant percentage of the US, German debt), etc.

Sell fiat money you print, buy a variety of securities... la vida loca. Maybe BoI should also invest in some more .... real... assets.