A day in the life of Fox News

[Dinner]

Pigovian taxes on gasoline and road use taxes/tolls

I'm all for user fees but we both know that won't happen. A majority of politicans will not vote to raise gas taxes or even state car registration fees while citizens hate tolls so usually politicians promise roads without tolls funded by public money. I just don't see user fees for cars or planes raising enough so that the system can pay for itself without subsidies. The UK has some of the highest gas taxes and car fees in the world yet I doubt even their system is entirely paid for in user fees without public money sneaking in some where.

[Dinner]

The arguments I hear from high-speed rail skeptics are generally more persuasive than those from the other side, and as far as the US goes it seems patently obvious that outside the NE seaboard and (possibly) SF-SD there is nothing economically sensible to be done. For those two regions, and for anything in China, I remain ignorant enough that I withhold judgment.

One question I have is why, even in the NE, there has never been even a whisper about private projects financing the railroad. Is the problem simply one of eminent domain, or are there deeper issues which render high-speed rail inferior to car + air?

Many states have made it illegal for local or even state governments to use eminent domain to take private property and give it to other private for profit groups like rail companies. I admit, there was a lot of abuse by politicians screwing over owners in order to help politically connected special interests so there is good reason for such restrictions but at the same time it is just not likely that really big projects (think major redevelopment projects) can get done without at least some public-private cooperation yet such set ups are often punished by the courts even if the public at large massively benefits from such projects. About 7-8 years ago we had a poly meet in downtown San Diego at a hooka lounge housed in an old converted wearhouse which had been remodeled. The city had designated that area for high rise construction especially for hotels since it was right next to the convention center. The guy refused to sell at any price though so the city used E.D. and eventually a fully modern mixed use condo, office, hotel, and retail building was built with about 40 stories; this massively increased property taxes paid on the plot, it provided lots of jobs, and it supported and expanded the entertainment area known as the Gas Lamp Quarter. The problem is the old owner sued and the courts ruled E.D. is for public projects only not to take from one owner and give to a different private group. The city was ordered to pay $60 million and when they appealed the appeals court tacked on another $10 million to teach the city to stop wasting the court's time.

How likely are such highly useful projects to be completed in the future if one stubborn old git just wants to block the project? I'd say not likely just like one land owner can refuse to give right of ways to private rail companies but publicly owned rail could plausibly pass legal muster even in CA.

[Dinner]

For rail here the issue normally needs gov't involvement because they almost always require legal powers for forced purchases of land. To go anywhere useful you have to go over stuff that's already owned by people.

In fact that was one of the things General Motors did with local light rail in the 1930's. They went to cities like L.A. which had a huge network of both public and private trolleys, bought up the systems, shut them all down (even those that were profitable), and then most importantly sold off the right of ways in pieces to make it near impossible for folks to reassemble without E.D.. In fact the city of LA had to use E.D. extensively when it constructed the metro link and a hodge podge of other light rail projects. Even with E.D. they still had to resort to constructing hyper expensive subway lines in some places simply because either the geography of buildings didn't work for light rail or because the courts blocked the city's attempts to use E.D. finding insufficient public good compared to the current private usage or finding that the city's claims that an area is blighted (and so legally E.D. can be used without as much public review) were not true as far as the court was concerned. It doesn't help that the proposition restricting E.D. usage didn't define several key terms about when E.D. can be used such as what is the definition of blighted or run down.

[Zevico]

You mean they are able to express the views of the organisation - which may or may not be their own views - as and when the organisation sees fit. I knew a bloke once who wrote for the Daily Mail - widely regarded as the most poisonously prejudiced newspaper in Britain. "You just write their bull****" he'd say.

Hmmm. I make no assumptions. But is that true, say, of some of well-known commentators? This may be a day job for them, but they can have other sources of income. I'm not saying they work for free, but they can and likely could find alternative and viable sources of income as talking heads or in some other capacity if they tried. Fox isn't the last island of conservatism in America, after all.

[MikeH]

hence may or may not

A lot of Fox commentators actually are the same kind of vicious right wing racist religious nutjubs as their viewers I'm sure.

[KrazyHorse]

For rail here the issue normally needs gov't involvement because they almost always require legal powers for forced purchases of land. To go anywhere useful you have to go over stuff that's already owned by people.

I already mentioned eminent domain (which fyi can sometimes, in the us, be used to facilitate private projects).

[Guynemer]

One reason why HSR is different, Oerdin, is that everyone can use those subsidized freeways and avenues and streets; it may be expensive to get a plane, but if you have one, you can use those subsidized airports.

Who can be on the rails other than the railroad companies?

[Lorizael]

Cows.

[Guynemer]

Touche.

[Hauldren Collider]

hence may or may not

A lot of Fox commentators actually are the same kind of vicious right wing racist religious nutjubs as their viewers I'm sure.

Sounds like you've never watched it...

[DaShi]

One reason why HSR is different, Oerdin, is that everyone can use those subsidized freeways and avenues and streets; it may be expensive to get a plane, but if you have one, you can use those subsidized airports.

Who can be on the rails other than the railroad companies?

Then the government never should have supported any rail system in the country (including subway systems), and we'd likely have none. I don't think that this can be used to exclude subsidized HSR.

[MikeH]

Sounds like you've never watched it...

Oh I know it's all glossed up and polished so their venom sounds reasonable. But the text on the OP matches all the clips I've seen. Very reminiscent of the vile Daily Mail.

[MikeH]

I already mentioned eminent domain (which fyi can sometimes, in the us, be used to facilitate private projects).

It's called Compulsory Purchase here, only Government or local government can do it I think (except for exceptional circumstances).

[Guynemer]

Then the government never should have supported any rail system in the country (including subway systems), and we'd likely have none. I don't think that this can be used to exclude subsidized HSR.

I don't necessarily disagree with your point; I was merely pointing out the fundamental difference to Oerdin.

[RGBVideo]

Nice picture collection in the OP. FOX seems to be the same agit/prop-tool of the corporate interests within the GOP it was 5 years ago.

High-speed rail is generally a stupid waste of money.

How so? Rail-based transportation uses less energy per person than airplanes or automobiles.

2) Rising oil prices (with which we can leverage current construction costs)

This is a eco-hippie talking point from ca 2008. There was a demand shock in oil around 2005-2007 and a speculative bubble in oil price 2007-2009 -- oil companies invested in drilling & refineries. Getting these new investments to work takes around 5 years or so. For the past 2½ years, oil prices have been falling, not rising.

4) Ability for businesspeople to work on their trip

How is this not true for planes?

Glass windows, man. I'm not the one who's unemployed. I hate to make a dig like that but you're just asking for it.

Now there's an intelligent, adult argument; a 100%-pure ad hominem. GG sir.