A Game of Thrones - TV Show Discussion Thread

[Lorizael]

I see it more of just refecting the social systems of Westeros. Like the middle ages everything isn't fair or neatly inline with modern viewpoints nor does society have the same age of consent. That is why you see pre-teens getting married but we also see a huge amount of that in real history.

Yes, the well known Westerosi social system of obliquely explaining your secret evil motives while instructing two women how to ****.

[Ecthy]

I see it more of just refecting the social systems of Westeros. Like the middle ages everything isn't fair or neatly inline with modern viewpoints nor does society have the same age of consent. That is why you see pre-teens getting married but we also see a huge amount of that in real history.

And what do you know about society of westeros? The author isn't to blame for a lot of choices the showrunners made. Also, depiction is not endorsement, and the show endorses a lot of problematic stuff, by providing violence against women that does not serve the story. Do you remember Ros? Was there any point in her violent death? Like we didn't know Jofrey was literally a bastard? Oh, let's use a woman's body as a projection plane for violent imagination, just because we can.

And Dry, you can name numerous examples ofhow the show has "strong women" like Brienne, but that doesn't really help with refuting a totaly different statement, namely that the show treats women disrespectfully.

You're also a bit of a whiner, aren't you? Butthurt that other people would support critical ideas that you don't?

[DaShi]

I see it more of just refecting the social systems of Westeros. Like the middle ages everything isn't fair or neatly inline with modern viewpoints nor does society have the same age of consent. That is why you see pre-teens getting married but we also see a huge amount of that in real history.

I'd say that if the show lacked many of the scenes where horrible things happen to women, it would hurt the overall feminist direction that the show has taken. Those scenes stimulate conversation, keeping the show from being an unrealistic feminist fantasy. They remind us that the positions of those women in power are hard won and on a razor-thin edge to falling backward. And that the war for equality is still far from over. As Dry well stated, you can make a very strong argument for Games of Thrones being one of the most pro-feminist shows on television right now.

[Dinner]

Yes, the show depicts women being powerful and independent and sometimes even good, but it also uses women as sex objects in a way that it doesn't use men. The "male gaze" is a definite issue in the show, for all that there are positive depictions of many female characters. Some have also argued that there is a pornographic element to the sexual violence against women in the show (see Sansa) but I don't know that I necessarily agree with that interpretation. There's been uncomfortable sexual violence against men, too (see Theon).

I see it more of just refecting the social systems of Westeros. Like the middle ages everything isn't fair or neatly inline with modern viewpoints nor does society have the same age of consent. That is why you see pre-teens getting married but we also see a huge amount of that in real history.

[Dinner]

Not sure what the point was of this episode.

It seemed like a placeholder to move the story forward. The writing has gotten worse since they no longer have the books to lean on.

[Dry]

Yes, the show depicts women being powerful and independent and sometimes even good, but it also uses women as sex objects in a way that it doesn't use men. The "male gaze" is a definite issue in the show, for all that there are positive depictions of many female characters. Some have also argued that there is a pornographic element to the sexual violence against women in the show (see Sansa) but I don't know that I necessarily agree with that interpretation. There's been uncomfortable sexual violence against men, too (see Theon).

OK, I hear you on that ...
And disagree with the usual feminist view on "sexual objectification" or "male gaze" implied by (mostly female) nudity.
But that is not the topic of this thread, so I'll leave it there.

Thank you for clarifying the arguments of those claiming the show is sexist.

[rah]

but it also uses women as sex objects in a way that it doesn't use men.

While I do generally agree, this season we've see it the other way some. Lots of naked men. Fronts and backs.

[Lorizael]

Where is the show *FULL* of sexism?

Yes, the show depicts women being powerful and independent and sometimes even good, but it also uses women as sex objects in a way that it doesn't use men. The "male gaze" is a definite issue in the show, for all that there are positive depictions of many female characters. Some have also argued that there is a pornographic element to the sexual violence against women in the show (see Sansa) but I don't know that I necessarily agree with that interpretation. There's been uncomfortable sexual violence against men, too (see Theon).

[rah]

Rah, have you read the books?

I read them originally until he took his decade break. I never read any of the continuations.

[Dry]

Could you cut the hostile sexism, please? I know the show is full of it, that's no reason to support it.

Do you mean a show
where Brienne of Tarth is probably the best fighter in Westeros. She wins vs Sir Loras in that tournement, she stands her ground vs Jaimie Lannister on that bridge, she takes down the Hound 1 on 1, where the 4 men in that inn could not. So far she beat every male 'best fighter' she came accross.
Or where Denaerys could rally all Dothracki tribes behind her where Khal Drogo couldn't?
Or where Meera Reed is the physically and mentally strongest character of the Reed Family. Where she is the 'protector' of the whole Bran expedition in the North? That her physically weaker brother Jojen is now dead?
Or where Asha is the mentally strongest character of the Greyjoy family. She has leadership qualities both as captain of a ship and as leader of the iron islands?
Or where Lady Olenna Tyrell is the true politician head in the Tyrell family?
Or where Maegery Tyrel is probably the smartest person in all Westeros?
Or young Lyanna Mormont (10y old) is the only one to dare to tell Ramsey to f**k himself?
Or a show that has shifted from the war of the 5 kings, to almost the war of the 5 queens (Cersei, Margery, Daenarys, Asha, Ellaria Sand)?

A show that tells us that politically able, influential male leaders (Tywin Lannister, Randyl Tarly, Mad King, Baylon & Euron Greyjoy, Stannis ...) are *******s with no human qualities, but female ones (Olenna Tyrell, Daenarys Targaryen, Asha Greyjoy, ...) have those qualities along with leadership qualities, is sexist?

According to you, which non disabled, living, male leader or champion is portrayed mostly as 'good'?
Sir Davos is not really a leader,
Jaimie Lannister lost a hand,
Tyron is a dwarf,
Varys & Greyworm have no balls,
Ned and Rob Stark are dead.
Raeghar Targaryen is dead.
Baristan Selmy is dead.

The message I get from that show is: if you're not a dwarf, a bastard or a fatty, the only way to be a good guy (and a leader) is : cut your balls, cut your hand or die.

Where is the show *FULL* of sexism?

I don't see the show as particularly male-friendly, honestly.
You really think that show promotes manhood, maleness and shames femininity?

When you watch that show you are proud to be male? Really?

[Bosh]

But that was source material from the books. D&D then decided to ditch virtually all the rest of the Dorne plot, write something new of their own, then just kill everyone to end it after it got nearly universally panned. It was a classic butterfly effect where one small change necessitated others and before you know it nothing is remotely similar.

Meh, the show often deploys a lot of bug spray on the butterflies. We get plots that diverge wildly from the books and then get dragged back to their book course often with people ignoring the stuff that happened during the filler arcs.

[Dauphin]

She sent her home just to insure that he wouldn't take her captive. Of course that's one walk of shame I wouldn't want to see.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was the Sparrow testing her with a win-win scenario for him - she warns her grandmother and he now knows she is not truly devoted (and can cite his reasons to challenge her in the open) AND gets the grandmother and her army out of King's Landing. If she doesn't warn her grandmother, then he know she is devoted and can consolidate his position more freely.

[-Jrabbit]

Now you're on Kid's list as an evil commie liberal fascist white knight fembot.

Welcome!

[Ecthy]

She sent her home just to insure that he wouldn't take her captive. Of course that's one walk of shame I wouldn't want to see.

Could you cut the hostile sexism, please? I know the show is full of it, that's no reason to support it.

Rah, have you read the books? Sorry if you refererred to this several times, I do not know right now.

(please excuxe the drink-drunk commie feminist)

[rah]

She sent her home just to insure that he wouldn't take her captive. Of course that's one walk of shame I wouldn't want to see.