A Game of Thrones - TV Show Discussion Thread

[Imran Siddiqui]

The commericals I can agree with. That has some limitations in writing. However, the lack of FCC goes both ways. I think just about EVERYONE realized that HBO had to include the "Roz" scenes in Game of Thrones because they had to get their "quota" of nudity in every episode. Which takes away from the plot.

As for Mike's point of "Must Watch Shows" - they tend to be the low ratings ones and get canceled for it (a la, Firefly). Though some of broken through like Lost and Once Upon a Time (same writers). Fringe has also had a number of great seasons though it constantly on the bubble. Friday Night Lights had been getting TONS of love (it's a great show) but it required Direct TV to step in and buy it so it could continue.

[Wezil]

Anyway Imran, I've enjoyed the debate but tire of it.

I think your point about financing and dollars is important and I consider it one of the reasons for the change in the past few years. Shows like Game of Thrones can't air on broadcast (regardless of content) simply because they cost too much to produce. Broadcast TV still does comedy well in part for the low cost of producing it compared to drama. This of course also explains the plague of "reality TV" shows. They are cheap to produce.

Also important is format. The ability to write a 40-60 minute episode without the constraints of commercial breaks is liberating from an artistic point of view. This is an inherent liability to which there is no solution for broadcast. They can't get rid of the commercials.

And lastly of course I think the absence of FCC rules (and sponsor opposition as you pointed out earlier) is also a significant artistic freedom enjoyed by cable. They don't have to write with consideration of the censors in the back of their minds and it is reflected in some (not all) of the cable programming.

[Wezil]

For interest sake, the Emmy lists for the same time period (winner listed first):

2006 24 FOX
Grey's Anatomy ABC
House FOX
The Sopranos HBO
The West Wing NBC

2007 The Sopranos HBO
Boston Legal ABC
Grey's Anatomy
Heroes NBC
House FOX

2008 Mad Men AMC
Boston Legal ABC
Damages FX
Dexter Showtime
House FOX
Lost ABC

2009 Mad Men AMC
Big Love HBO
Breaking Bad AMC
Damages FX
Dexter Showtime
House FOX
Lost ABC

2010 Mad Men AMC
Breaking Bad AMC
Dexter Showtime
The Good Wife CBS
Lost ABC
True Blood HBO

2011 Mad Men AMC
Boardwalk Empire HBO
Dexter Showtime
Friday Night Lights DirecTV/NBC
Game of Thrones HBO
The Good Wife CBS

[Wezil]

I support Wezil on this. I think the last 2 or 3 years have marked a big change. A few years ago there were great "must watch" shows from the networks. But I can't think of any new ones that started in the last few years. House is still great but that's ending, that's the only one I can think of.

I loved House and still watch but I think it went off the rails a few years ago.

And it's not just cable networks it's pretty much entirely HBO and Showtime.

And AMC. Imran rightly notes AMC is the "tamest" of the lot and has programming that could probably go to broadcast TV with few changes. Mad Men would have to lose the smoking, Walking Dead would have to stop shooting kids in the head and The Killing would need to find an ending...

Homeland is currently screening here, it's great.

I watched that and was most impressed. Looking forward to the DVDs.

[Wezil]

You realize you are citing an Awards Show that gave their Best Drama prize to GREY'S ANATOMY one year, right?

Yes.

See my post above.

[Wezil]

Showtime is still considered the bastard child of HBO. It has decent stuff like the first season of Weeds, Dexter, and, apparently, Homeland, but not nearly on par. Starz is just funny. AMC makes good stuff, but you just called their criticall most successful show and the one that won those 4 straight Emmy's to be not that good (so pick an argument - do award shows determine value or not?).

That is a good argument for which I don't think there is any good answer. Ratings don't work as there is a huge disparity in access (in effect one is comparing unlike items) but I concede awards only reflect the tastes of those offering the award. Are they "better"? I like to include the nominees as well as the winners for a wider picture but it still comes down to taste. That said, is there another measure that would work?

Re - My trashing of Mad Men... Again, it's a matter of taste. Believe it or not I've watched 2 or 3 seasons of the show (up to the point when Draper and colleagues started their own firm) in an attempt to find the elusive quality I was missing. The show was incredibly popular and loved by critics so I wanted to discover why. I just never did.

As for West Wing - winner of 4 straight Drama Emmys from 2000 to 2003. I didn't realize 10 years ago was "not current".

In TV terms it's not current. That's well past reruns and into syndication territory.

[MikeH]

I support Wezil on this. I think the last 2 or 3 years have marked a big change. A few years ago there were great "must watch" shows from the networks. But I can't think of any new ones that started in the last few years. House is still great but that's ending, that's the only one I can think of.

And it's not just cable networks it's pretty much entirely HBO and Showtime.

Homeland is currently screening here, it's great.

[Imran Siddiqui]

2006: Grey's Anatomy - ABC

24 - Fox
Big Love - HBO
Heroes- NBC
Lost - ABC

2007: Mad Men - AMC

Big Love - HBO
Damages - FX
Grey's Anatomy - ABC
House - Fox
The Tudors - Showtime

2008: Mad Men - AMC

Dexter - Showtime
House - Fox
In Treatment - HBO
True Blood - HBO

2009: Mad Men - AMC

Big Love - HBO
Dexter - Showtime
House - Fox
True Blood - HBO

2010: Boardwalk Empire - HBO
Dexter - Showtime
The Good Wife - CBS
Mad Men - AMC
The Walking Dead - AMC

2011: Homeland - Showtime
American Horror Story - FX
Boardwalk Empire - HBO
Boss - Starz
Game of Thrones - HBO



2006 was the last year broadcast fared well.

I guess you could argue it's a slump and not a trend.

You realize you are citing an Awards Show that gave their Best Drama prize to GREY'S ANATOMY one year, right?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Showtime is still considered the bastard child of HBO. It has decent stuff like the first season of Weeds, Dexter, and, apparently, Homeland, but not nearly on par. Starz is just funny. AMC makes good stuff, but you just called their criticall most successful show and the one that won those 4 straight Emmy's to be not that good (so pick an argument - do award shows determine value or not?).

As for West Wing - winner of 4 straight Drama Emmys from 2000 to 2003. I didn't realize 10 years ago was "not current".

[Wezil]

2006: Grey's Anatomy - ABC

24 - Fox
Big Love - HBO
Heroes- NBC
Lost - ABC

2007: Mad Men - AMC

Big Love - HBO
Damages - FX
Grey's Anatomy - ABC
House - Fox
The Tudors - Showtime

2008: Mad Men - AMC

Dexter - Showtime
House - Fox
In Treatment - HBO
True Blood - HBO

2009: Mad Men - AMC

Big Love - HBO
Dexter - Showtime
House - Fox
True Blood - HBO

2010: Boardwalk Empire - HBO
Dexter - Showtime
The Good Wife - CBS
Mad Men - AMC
The Walking Dead - AMC

2011: Homeland - Showtime
American Horror Story - FX
Boardwalk Empire - HBO
Boss - Starz
Game of Thrones - HBO



2006 was the last year broadcast fared well.

I guess you could argue it's a slump and not a trend.

[Wezil]

Which channel is Game of Thrones on?

Not Showtime, Starz, AMC or any of the other Cable channels currently making original programming that weren't making it 10 years ago. HBO is just maintaining their fine record.

You mean along with Lost and that huge example of violence, The West Wing.

And there you go again... :sigh:

West Wing won in 2001. Lost in 2005. Neither has been nominated since 2006.

Way to stay current Imran.

[MikeH]

Cameron's recent visit has put me in mind of The West Wing in the episodes dealing with the Brits.

[Lorizael]

West Wing featured a liberal president who probably ate the children of prominent capitalists for breakfast. The violence was implied.

[Imran Siddiqui]

One channel, HBO. The trailblazer.

You know the explosion of cable shows happened recently. And you call me pedantic?

Which channel is Game of Thrones on?

Didn't watch it. Maybe it did. If I'm not mistaken, 24 was one of the few broadcast shows to win any awards recently. Hardly indicative of the channel however.

You mean along with Lost and that huge example of violence, The West Wing.

[Wezil]

Wasn't making shows?! 10 Years ago was the heyday of The Sopranos and Six Feet Under and Sex & the City. People were saying HBO was entering into a dark age when those shows ended (with dreak like John in Cincinnati it was hard to argue).

One channel, HBO. The trailblazer.

You know the explosion of cable shows happened recently. And you call me pedantic?

And my example of 24? 24 had far more violence than Breaking Bad can hope for.

Didn't watch it. Maybe it did. If I'm not mistaken, 24 was one of the few broadcast shows to win any awards recently. Hardly indicative of the channel however.