Running again

[Al B. Sure!]

So, a few months back you were set on adding about 20 pounds of pointless and unnecessary muscle, and now you're struggling to run distances?

All that weight is gone. It's been gone for a few months now. Easy gain easy go.

[MRT144]

Ran said marathon. 5:11:52. I had a great time.

[Al B. Sure!]

Yeah Ben, I did 400m intervals again and same ****.

First interval was in 1:12 (I had to go around some people so hence the 2 second slow down). I rested two minutes and felt dead on a miserable 1:32 effort.

I rested 5 minutes and only managed a 1:28; rested 3 minutes and 1:36.

I'm thinking the way my times drop with each successive interval even with rest is related to the way my 800m and beyond is so much slower than my 400m.

What would be my best course of action?

And I actually walked it off for 10 minutes and ran a 3 miler after this session. Did it in 24:44 which is slow but not as slow as I would have thought for how the intervals made me feel. Go figure.

[Bosh]

I've been trying to get back into long distance running as well. So far my best is 22:10 for 5K, give me a while and I think I'll break my old high school record of 19:20 since I always slacked off during the off seasons between cross country and track I don't think I ever got into peak condition then. On the other hand I was rail thin in high school and I've got a good bit more muslce now (5'9" 175 pounds with minimal fat) so that'll hold me back a bit. Still, I should do OK for someone who's 30 given a few more months...

Am doing mostly 300/400m intervals with minimum rest time (jogging 200m in between runs). Seems to work OK.

[Al B. Sure!]

I've been trying to get back into long distance running as well. So far my best is 22:10 for 5K, give me a while and I think I'll break my old high school record of 19:20 since I always slacked off during the off seasons between cross country and track I don't think I ever got into peak condition then. On the other hand I was rail thin in high school and I've got a good bit more muslce now (5'9" 175 pounds with minimal fat) so that'll hold me back a bit. Still, I should do OK for someone who's 30 given a few more months...

Am doing mostly 300/400m intervals with minimum rest time (jogging 200m in between runs). Seems to work OK.

How much variation are you seeing between your 400m intervals? I assume jogging 200m only takes about 60-90 seconds. Are you able to keep your times pretty close with each interval?

[Al B. Sure!]

Ben, I posted about my running situation on the Crossfit forums and people there seem to disagree with your assessment. I was told I have the speed but not the lungs and should be doing longer runs to build up my aerobic capacity. What you were referring to sounds more like anaerobic improvement but they don't think that's the issue.

The reason his times drop off precipitously is because his aerobic capacity is lacking. In an 800m run the body obtains a large percent (I've seen estimates of up to 50%) of its energy aerobically. Since the OP is lacking aerobically, his lactate threshold, the pace (or, more accurately, heart rate) at which his body begins to produce substantial amounts of lactic acid, is very low.

The 200m and 400m are short enough that his body can handle the amount of lactic acid being produced. Past 400m, however, the lactic acid accumulation becomes too great and he is forced to slow down substantially. If he had a better aerobic base, he could hold a much faster pace at distances greater than 400m without producing much lactic acid. The reason top marathoners can run 26 miles at ~5min/mile pace is because they have developed (via LSD training) such amazing aerobic capacities that they can sustain those paces without producing much lactic acid.

Thoughts?

[Bosh]

How much variation are you seeing between your 400m intervals? I assume jogging 200m only takes about 60-90 seconds. Are you able to keep your times pretty close with each interval?

Haven't been timing each interval (did 10 300m sprints, with 10 200 meter slow jogs in the middle in 25:36 total, will try to speed up the jogs) but having some drop-off is probably a good thing, if you don't have any drop-off that probably means that you're resting too much I try to keep with what I did in high school, which was interval workouts that left me done-deep exhausted by keeping the rest periods short enough that exhaustion accumulates slowly. If you're not really really tired at the end, I don't think you're getting enough endurance workout.

[Al B. Sure!]

Haven't been timing each interval (did 10 300m sprints, with 10 200 meter slow jogs in the middle in 25:36 total, will try to speed up the jogs) but having some drop-off is probably a good thing, if you don't have any drop-off that probably means that you're resting too much I try to keep with what I did in high school, which was interval workouts that left me done-deep exhausted by keeping the rest periods short enough that exhaustion accumulates slowly. If you're not really really tired at the end, I don't think you're getting enough endurance workout.

From what I've heard from people with track backgrounds, consistency is more important than the actual time. The goal, I assume, would be to maintain consistent times with ever decreasing rests.

[Al B. Sure!]

Low-60's in the rain, I ran my best PFT ever today. Have never gone this fast. 20:59 3mile. I couldn't believe it when I hit the half-way point at only 10:14, but I kept going. It's my official score so it's going with my paperwork to the selection board, putting my overall score at 282/300. I'm beaming because I never imagined I would get under 21 minutes.

And, Ben, guess how I got there? I did the EXACT OPPOSITE of your advice. Instead of running 400m sprints, I avoided all sprints and went long. For several weeks, I ran nothing but 40, 50, 60 minute or even longer runs at steady paces, building my endurance and aerobic base. Then, in the past few weeks, I've done 1.6 and 3 mile runs hard on a mildly hilly (for the city) terrain, during my lunch-breaks at work.

You also said to not run in the heat, well I ran in the heat. I think I improved my conditioning substantially by running in the mid-day heat.

So yeah, Ben, thanks for the advice. I did the opposite and I've shattered my personal bests.

[Hauldren Collider]

I'm no athlete but a basic understanding of physiology (which I'm sure Ben lacks) should make it apparent that sprinting and distance running are very different activities.

Alby, I don't approve of your continuing to try to join the Marines, but congratulations on your new record.

[Al B. Sure!]

I'm no athlete but a basic understanding of physiology (which I'm sure Ben lacks) should make it apparent that sprinting and distance running are very different activities.

Alby, I don't approve of your continuing to try to join the Marines, but congratulations on your new record.

Thank you. And Ben isn't as completely wrong as he sounds. There is some carryover and there have been studies that substantiate that sprints can be as effective as longer runs at improving your performance at longer runs, but, a combination of work is ideal and, given my times, it is evident that I was/am a better sprinter than an endurance runner, so further concentration on a distance 1/12th of what I am tested on wasn't worthwhile.

I posted my times over at the forums at crossfit.com a few months ago and everyone was in agreement that I should run distances, the only question being if I should concentrate on 5+ mile runs or the 1-3 mile range but I did both and saw big improvement. When I saw no support for Ben's claims, I knew to do the opposite.

[KrazyHorse]

At a 20-21 minute 3 mile there is very little benefit to speedwork. It's more important at quicker paces (not to take away from quite a good time; just pointing out that more advanced training techniques really only apply at higher levels).

[Al B. Sure!]

At a 20-21 minute 3 mile there is very little benefit to speedwork. It's more important at quicker paces (not to take away from quite a good time; just pointing out that more advanced training techniques really only apply at higher levels).

Which is all why Ben's advice was wrong and was rightfully ignored to good effect.

[MRT144]

I want to know how fast and far you have to run before you vomit.

[Al B. Sure!]

I want to know how fast and far you have to run before you vomit.

I vomited a little on a run during the summer. I mentioned the incident here on the thread. I also asked if it was okay for me to leave it there on the sidewalk.

That was more a case of not feeling well and the heat bothering me than the actual exertion of the run.