Barack Obama is secretly pro-Gadaffi - or he's a *****.

[Aeson]

Please do god on...

[Zevico]

Why is it meaningful or even productive to have a discussion of the question of it international realism is a Nazi-like philosophy Dauphin? When a discussion is founded on one side throwing around pejoratives its bound to be a frustrating experience for someone.

Good point.

Under a dictatorship at least people fear God.

The supposed anti-Nazi praises dicatorship.
This discussion is over.

[Kidlicious]

The Nazis weren't evil because they were dictators. They were evil because they were murderers. You seem to think you' re enlightened because you believe in democracy. You don't even care if everyone in your country is a warmonger.

[Dauphin]

Why is it meaningful or even productive to have a discussion of the question of it international realism is a Nazi-like philosophy Dauphin? When a discussion is founded on one side throwing around pejoratives its bound to be a frustrating experience for someone.

I was not the one to raise the perjorative "Nazi" - I responded to his post that contained that perjorative, and stated I was sure that "Nazi" was not what he was going for.

Kid is being idiotic.

[Kitschum]

Why hasn't God destroyed all those European countries that are way more godless than America?

If the present state ain't destruction I can't imagine the calamities that await us. We simple Northern folk allow gay marriage already, but wait till the Spanish and Greeks get there too. The world will tremble...

[Kidlicious]

I was not the one to raise the perjorative "Nazi" - I responded to his post that contained that perjorative, and stated I was sure that "Nazi" was not what he was going for.

Kid is being idiotic.

Perhaps I should have said that they seem to have a disregard for human life. For some reason that doesn't offend people much, but when you say they are like Nazis they really get their panties twisted.

[Zevico]

Good news, fellows.

http://pajamasmedia.com/barryrubin/2011/09/02/libya-an-islamist-terrorist-takes-command-of-main-rebel-forces/

By Barry Rubin

Finally, we have evidence that IsIamists and even al-Qaida supporters will play a central role in Libya’s new regime. Up to now there has been reasonable speculation that the U.S. government and NATO might be installing an anti-Western, Islamist government in Libya. Now there’s proof that this is so.

The actual government remains in the hands of non-Islamists, technocrats, ex-regime officials, and moderates. But the armed rebels who actually made the revolution have voted and their idol is…an al-Qaida guy. Political power, said Mao Zedong, grows out of the barrel of a gun and in Libya’s case this seems a very reasonable expectation.

According to al-Jazira, the network recommended by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton as fair and balanced, Abd al-Hakim al-Hasadi, also known as Abdelhakim Belhaj, has been named commander of the Tripoli Military Council. He was formerly head of the Libyan Islamist Fighting Group, an al-Qaida affiliate. Moderates are understandably nervous.

In 1999, the group’s spokesman praised Usama bin Ladin (remember him?) and said: “The United States no longer relies on its agents to constrict the Islamic tide; it has taken this role upon itself.” One of its former leaders worked to plan the attacks on the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, resulting in massive loss of life. In 2003, members were involved in an al-Qaida terror attack in Morocco.

In November 2007, al-Qa‟ida leader Ayman al-Zawahiri announced that the two groups were merging. True, a number of the group’s activists in prison denounced terrorism and made a deal with the Qadhafi regime in order to be set free. But since the organization broke its pledge to Qadhafi in order to overthrow him, presumably that deal no longer stands.

At any rate, the group was still designated as terrorist by the U.S. government. Here it is on the terrorism list (number 26, in alphabetical order) released by the State Department last May

Of course, the appointment of one leader in an al-Qaida affiliated group does not an Islamist regime make. But it is an omen and, again, the people who control the guns are more important than those who control the desks. We will have to see how things develop.

But another indication is that there’s more. Who put him in this post? The armed rebels chose al-Hasadi as their commander, not leaving that selection to the NATO-backed Transitional National Council government. Remember, I pointed out that the guys with guns don’t care what the guys in suits say. Some council members complained that al-Hadadi is sponsored by Qatar, which gave a lot of the money and whose rulers like to play radical sheikhs who often align themselves with Iran.

In fact, we can quote on this point Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Salam Fayyad who told a U.S. official in 2007–as we now know thanks to Wikileaks–”He was extremely worried about Qatar and its continued support for Hamas and other Islamist organizations in the West Bank and Gaza…claiming that they provide ‘more support to fundamentalists than Kuwait or Saudi Arabia.’”

U.S. policy has given no sense that it is aware of this problem.

Abdul-Jalil, chairman of the council, said he introduced al-Hasadi to his group’s NATO allies to show that he poses, “No danger to international peace and stability.” Well, that’s reassuring.

We can assume that al-Hasadi said that he was merely young and impulsive, was driven to extremes by Qadhafi’s undeniably horrible dictatorship, and is now mature. But that argument would miss the point. Even if he has outgrown al-Qaida, does he favor the transformation of Libya into an anti-Western Islamist state? Or perhaps he’s been “bought off” by the Western aid money. What do you think?

But let me explain to President Barack Obama, the U.S. government, and NATO how this thing is supposed to work. Your key liaison, be it CIA or State Department, goes to see al-Jalil and says:

“Ahmad, as you know our soldiers, supplies, advisors, and warplanes have put you into power. Therefore, you either get rid of all of the al-Qaida types—at least in positions of any authority—or we stop all of our support and find someone else to head the Transitional National Council. No, TLC [Tender Loving Care] for our interests; no TNC.”

Now, you could call that bullying or imperialistic if you want, but the TNC doesn’t have a right to being supported. NATO backing is not an entitlement. The purpose of U.S. and European policy is supposed to be to protect those countries legitimate interests. When you give the money, diplomatic support, and air strikes that entitles you to some say in the outcome. For example, on the eve of the tenth anniversary of the killing of 3000 Americans by al-Qaida you don’t accept the appointment of an al-Qaida supporter to run the new Libyan military.

True, in Turkey the Obama Administration has supported an elected anti-American Islamist regime; in he Gaza Strip it saved an anti-American Islamist regime; in Syria, It did everything possible to avoid condemning an anti-American pro-Islamist regime; in Lebanon, it stood by and didn’t help the real moderates as an anti-American Islamist-dominated regime came to power; in Iran, it engaged an anti-American Islamist regime; and in Egypt, it said that it had no problem with an anti-American Islamist regime coming to power.

But actually installing an Islamist regime with Western weapons? That’s crossing the line.

Sources cited by Rubin (which appear in the original article)

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=308

http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2016059966_libya31.html

[DaShi]

Do we really need another Ben?

[Dinner]

Pajamas media? Jesus Christ.

[MOBIUS]

Do we really need another Ben?

I thought it was another two: KidBen and OZBen. Now we just need BenBen to complete the Axis of Stupidity...

[DaShi]

Pajamas media? Jesus Christ.

I know. Third rate of the third rates.

[Dauphin]

Perhaps I should have said that they seem to have a disregard for human life. For some reason that doesn't offend people much, but when you say they are like Nazis they really get their panties twisted.

To quite the Onion "The equivalent of five Americans died in Afghanistan when a bomb exploded...."

[Kidlicious]

"Are you saying that 9-11 didn't change everything?" Peter Griffin (Family Guy)

[Zevico]

Pajamas media? Jesus Christ.

Actually, the article he refers to appears in the Seattle Times. And if you read the by line it actually appeared in the New York Times.
I'll cite it again:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2016059966_libya31.html

[Zevico]

Even my local broadsheet has a report, complete with an interview with the man himself (emphasis mine):

http://www.theage.com.au/world/libyas-rebel-chief-counting-down-days-20110902-1jq6v.html

THE man in charge of securing Tripoli and toppling the final remnants of the Gaddafi regime in the capital is emphatic: the February 17 revolution has reached its end game.

''The regime has fallen down completely … it cannot come back from here,'' said the newly appointed head of the Tripoli Military Council, Abdul Hakim Belhaj.

Sitting in a large office at the Military Council's headquarters - the Mitiga Airport on the eastern outskirts of Tripoli - the former Islamist fighter and inmate of the notorious Abu Salim Prison said if negotiations for a transition of power in the final Gaddafi stronghold of Sirt failed, rebel soldiers would seize control of the town within days. The rebels have set next Saturday as a deadline for surrender.
...

''We have rebels to the east, west and south of Sirt,'' he said. ''We are determined to achieve the goals of the February 17 revolution - to enable a new Libya to form a new government that governs for all the people, for all of Libya, not just for one man.''

In one of his increasingly desperate addresses to a population who had turned against him, Muammar Gaddafi threatened to rain terror on Tripoli and on those who failed to support him on September 1, the second day of Eid. On Thursday, Saif al-Islam, Gaddafi's son, said loyalist troops were ''coming to liberate Green Square'' in Tripoli.

Were the security forces concerned Colonel Gaddafi was planning one final attack? ''If he was going to do anything, why would he wait until September 1?'' Mr Belhaj replied. ''This is just another bit of propaganda from Gaddafi.''

Mr Belhaj led the attack on Gaddafi's Bab al-Aziziya compound, and commands enormous respect among the rebel soldiers. But his appointment has raised concerns in the West and among liberal Libyans dismayed at his Islamist politics.

Known in the jihadi world as Abu Abdullah al-Sadiq, Mr Belhaj is the former commander of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), an organisation with suspected links to al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and the al-Jihad organisation in Egypt.

The LIFG tried three times to assassinate Colonel Gaddafi in 1995 and 1996 before it was disbanded in 1998. Mr Belhaj spent time in the Abu Salim Prison, after being captured in Malaysia in March 2004 and sent to Libya after his second stint of fighting in Afghanistan after the September 11 attacks in the United States. According to a Human Rights Watch report, Mr Belhaj said he was tortured by the CIA before he was sent to Libya. He was sentenced to death in 2008, then, with a change in government policy, freed in 2010.

Securing Tripoli and its major buildings was a priority for the military council, and Mr Belhaj said the number of people on the street and in Martyr (formerly Green) Square indicated many felt safe enough to return to some semblance of normal life.

''They are walking on the streets, shops are opening … despite the obstacles the old regime tried to place in front of us.''

After giving Gaddafi loyalists a deadline of today to hand over power in the stronghold of Sirt, the National Transitional Council extended the deadline until September 10 in an apparent attempt to avoid further bloodshed.

At the same time, delegates from 60 countries and international organisations were meeting in Paris to devise a plan to release more frozen funds to assist Libyan-led transition from dictatorship to democracy.

As for Colonel Gaddafi, who released an audio message on Thursday urging people to rise against rebel forces, Mr Belhaj said: ''Obviously capturing Gaddafi means an end to this war … ultimately he now has no choice, face justice or be killed.'