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House Votes for Repeal of Health Law in Symbolic Act

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  • #31
    Originally posted by gribbler View Post
    If you want to cut costs, leave the poor and elderly to their fate. Apparently HC only believes that life is paramount if it's a fetus and he won't have to pay the price for keeping it alive
    Putting basic incentives in place is not "leaving old people to their fate". It's preventing quack medicine and forcing people to actually decide whether they NEED medical care instead of giving everyone over 65 a blank check. We shouldn't devote 100% of possible resources towards someone's healthcare, and it's ridiculous to say that NOT doing so would be akin to abandoning old people.
    If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
    ){ :|:& };:

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    • #32
      By the way, I never said that every fetus deserves free healthcare, only that they deserve not to be murdered. Big difference. But leave abortion in another thread.
      If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
      ){ :|:& };:

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      • #33
        If HC and minions had ruled here, I actually wouldn't have had a sister. She needed heart surgery shortly after birth, and my parents could in no way pay for such. Due to our healt care paid by public she still is alive and kicking.
        With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

        Steven Weinberg

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
          Putting basic incentives in place is not "leaving old people to their fate". It's preventing quack medicine and forcing people to actually decide whether they NEED medical care instead of giving everyone over 65 a blank check. We shouldn't devote 100% of possible resources towards someone's healthcare, and it's ridiculous to say that NOT doing so would be akin to abandoning old people.
          Basic incentives? How about paying for healthcare so that there is an incentive to save their lives.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
            If HC and minions had ruled here, I actually wouldn't have had a sister. She needed heart surgery shortly after birth, and my parents could in no way pay for such. Due to our healt care paid by public she still is alive and kicking.
            civilization

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            • #36
              Originally posted by gribbler View Post
              Basic incentives? How about paying for healthcare so that there is an incentive to save their lives.
              Reducing the cost of healthcare so that more people can pay for it sounds like a great way to help the poor. The easiest way for the government to reduce costs would be to put a yearly limit on how much you can get per year in medicare and medicaid benefits.

              I'm not quite sure what "an incentive to save their lives" even means. The main difference between my plan and yours is that my plan would actually work as intended.
              If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
              ){ :|:& };:

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                Reducing the cost of healthcare so that more people can pay for it sounds like a great way to help the poor. The easiest way for the government to reduce costs would be to put a yearly limit on how much you can get per year in medicare and medicaid benefits.

                I'm not quite sure what "an incentive to save their lives" even means. The main difference between my plan and yours is that my plan would actually work as intended.
                Medical personnel need to get paid for their work. If the government pays for basic public services then there is an incentive to provide them.

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                • #38
                  HC, curing people means that they can work and earn money.
                  With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                  Steven Weinberg

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                  • #39
                    If BlackCat's government hadn't offered the money, doctors probably would not have had sufficient incentive to perform heart surgery on his sister.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by gribbler View Post
                      Medical personnel need to get paid for their work. If the government pays for basic public services then there is an incentive to provide them.
                      We agree that medical professionals should get paid. Where in the current system does that NOT happen?

                      If the government paid for everyone's television, then there is an incentive to provide television to everyone. The whole point of a market is that the market determines exactly how much television we should provide. The government is very bad at figuring these sorts of things out.

                      Milton Friedman observed that if the government ran the Sahara, we would soon face a shortage of sand. If there was enough medical care for everyone in this country, it would be cheap enough for everyone to get medical care. The only reason this would NOT be the case is government intervention. You are basically promoting the idea of healthcare as welfare. I don't think having healthcare be part of the welfare system is a terrible idea, but I do think having a very large welfare system IS a terrible idea. The focus should not be on getting more poor people on medicaid, it should be on getting more poor people OUT of medicaid and into an income level where they can afford insurance, and placing enough cost controls on medicare and medicaid that such insurance isn't exorbitant due to the government buying up all the supply.
                      If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                      ){ :|:& };:

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe View Post
                        I find it amusing that the calls are for folks to understand government and for government to do such things as create jobs, when the chief function of government is to act as a policing force on society. Thus having little to no positive impact of job creation save for its lightest of footprints to ensure order.
                        The New Deal says other wise.
                        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Oerdin View Post
                          The New Deal says other wise.
                          There is plenty of evidence that the New Deal was ineffective. There is also lots of evidence to the contrary. Personally I'm of the opinion that it primarily made the economy dependent on the government rather than actually lifting us out of the depression, but I don't think anyone really knows for sure.

                          One thing seems fairly clear--Keynsianism has been ineffective in the last few years. People other than Krugman often attribute this to the fact that the economy is more global, making it harder for a government stimulus to have an impact.
                          If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                          ){ :|:& };:

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                            If the government paid for everyone's television, then there is an incentive to provide television to everyone. The whole point of a market is that the market determines exactly how much television we should provide. The government is very bad at figuring these sorts of things out.
                            Holy christ, you are actually comparing the health of a nation with the sames ability to deliver television

                            That is probably the most stupid thing that I have ever read.
                            With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                            Steven Weinberg

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                            • #44
                              Health insurance companies likely to break profit records for 2010
                              By Elise Viebeck - 11/16/10 12:38 PM ET

                              The six largest investor-owned health insurance companies saw a 22 percent increase in combined net income in the third quarter, putting them on pace to break profit records for 2010.

                              According to S.E.C. figures compiled by Health Care for America Now (HCAN), which lobbied Congress to pass March's healthcare overhaul, the top six insurers made a total of $3.4 billion in profits during Q3, or $611 million more than they did during the same period last year.

                              The analysis looked at WellPoint Inc., UnitedHealth Group Inc., Aetna Inc., Humana Inc., Cigna Corp. and Coventry Health Care Inc., which had a combined enrollment of 85 million consumers as of Sept. 30. They saw an overall decrease in commercial enrollment of 3.4 million consumers between 2008 and 2010.

                              All but WellPoint, Inc., meanwhile, increased how much of each premium they allocate to administrative costs and profit.
                              Keep on Civin'
                              RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
                                Holy christ, you are actually comparing the health of a nation with the sames ability to deliver television

                                That is probably the most stupid thing that I have ever read.
                                That's because you are too stupid to understand the analogy.
                                If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                                ){ :|:& };:

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