Religion: Real or Fake

[Jon Miller]

That's possible I guess, but if the effects of the mind/soul/etc. can't be separated from the effects of natural factors then I think it becomes a lot harder to find evidence that dualism could be true.

Separating different natural factors from eachother is currently impossible in this science, in my understanding.

If you want easy science, it is physics.

JM

[Kidlicious]

To add to my point. For a christian to believe that Jesus turned water into wine is one thing, but to expect others who are not christians to believe it is another. That's because it's absurd. Some materialists believe that we don't have free will because that fits into their ideology, but they forgot that it's absurd and so they expect others to believe it.

[MOBIUS]

I did.
There is no solid proof of GOD.
It is faith.

So blind faith then? Not based on anything other than a bunch of people telling you that God is real, so you believe them...

So, I guess Scientology must be real too...

[Lorizael]

No, because L. Ron Hubbard is not God/the Son of God/dead/alive/the forgiver of all sins/really nice.

[MOBIUS]

How do you know that though?

For all we know L. Ron Hubbard was the mortal son of the great universe creator 'Big Ron', sent to Earth to share with humans his love of trashy science fiction...?

More to the point, prove he wasn't!

[MikeH]

I think if I was considering being religious that's the question that would stump me. Which religion is the best/right one?

And, indeed, if there is only one God, why are there so many religions? How does one choose?

I know most people don't choose, they are just indoctrinated into whatever their family believed, but that doesn't seem like a good reason to choose to me.

[N35t0r]

But you are saying that we are not that much different from a computer and we are.

sigh

I don't just say so. As I said huge advances have been made. Some have said that all we need to do is make some technological advances and that will prove that we don't have free will. Well HUGE advances have been made. Now you are again telling me that all we need is technological advances.

How much time and energy has been put into finding external tools that can determine if software is running on a computer? And how much time and energy has been used to determine if the mind is like software running the brain?

So, basically, everything we haven't discovered thus far doesn't exist? (also, you saying there have been doesn't make it so...)

There have been HUGE advances in computers over the past 55 years, so it's clear there won't be any more, right?

I don't expect you to believe that Jesus turned water into wine as you are not a Christian. That's something completely different.

No. Read what I was responding to. You said that me believing there was no free will was ridiculous.

And people took the time and energy to prove that it wasn't. Would you say the earth wasn't flat if people were still trying to prove that it wasn't?

So it's also ridiculous that they're trying to find the higgs boson? Or that they shouldn't have bothered with dark matter nad dark energy? Is there somehow nothing else we can learn about the brain? We already understand perfectly every mental affliction there is?

It's not likely because, as I've said, we seem to be using our free will.

Some of us seem to be pulling arguments out of their ass.

I tend to believe that we would make the same decision each way because of subjectivity.

So the choice was pre-determined to happen (only it would be effectively impossible to accuratley predict it)?

[N35t0r]

To add to my point. For a christian to believe that Jesus turned water into wine is one thing, but to expect others who are not christians to believe it is another. That's because it's absurd. Some materialists believe that we don't have free will because that fits into their ideology, but they forgot that it's absurd and so they expect others to believe it.

I never expected you to believe it. You said my belief was ridiculous.

[Kidlicious]

I think if I was considering being religious that's the question that would stump me. Which religion is the best/right one?

The idea of 'considering being religious' should strike people as strange. Why would you consider it, I mean with any seriousness? But I think some people do consider it, not having anything to do in actuality with God, but to be accepted by society.

And, indeed, if there is only one God, why are there so many religions? How does one choose?

God has something to do with that.

I know most people don't choose, they are just indoctrinated into whatever their family believed, but that doesn't seem like a good reason to choose to me.

Me either.

[Imran Siddiqui]

How does one choose?

You go around, try and see. Be open and it will choose you.

[Kidlicious]

sigh

So then you are aware that there is no actual thing that resembles what you are calling the mind?

So, basically, everything we haven't discovered thus far doesn't exist? (also, you saying there have been doesn't make it so...)

No. I'm saying that if it doesn't make sense in the first place and a lot of time and energy has been expended to see if it might be true than it's very unlikely to be true.

So the choice was pre-determined to happen (only it would be effectively impossible to accuratley predict it)?

Ok

[Kidlicious]

I never expected you to believe it. You said my belief was ridiculous.

And it is ridiculous. Just because you deny that it is doesn't mean it isn't. I admit it's ridiculous to believe that Jesus turned water into wine unless you are a christian.

[giblets]

What makes it ridiculous

[Kidlicious]

What makes it ridiculous

What makes it not? How does someone come up with such a crazy idea anyway? This is how, they believe in an ideology and in order to show that ideology to be the truth they have to make crazy arguments about things they never even thought about before.

[rah]

What makes it not? How does someone come up with such a crazy idea anyway? This is how, they believe in an ideology and in order to show that ideology to be the truth they have to make crazy arguments about things they never even thought about before.

The origin of religions.