Religion: Real or Fake

[Jon Miller]

Someone should explain the "I think it would be unlikely for a universe to have some arbitrary property, therefore having said property proves my deity" argument to me.

I didn't say my deity.

I just said that what you said was similar to hypothesizing pink unicorns living on pluto with the words 'I was created' in blue (grown that way) on their foreheads.

JM

[Docfeelgood]

What were the chances of having a universe where Jon Miller would say this on January 14th, 2011? Probably not very high, ergo God exists!

OMG!!!!
has the lord touched you?
If not send me 20 dollars to.........DFG

[giblets]

If life existed, then it would be much much much much more probable than only one planet in the entire history of the universe developing life.

JM

Can you explain your comment about me having "no concept of statistics"? Last time I checked, our sample size for universes is one.

[Docfeelgood]

Something is hard wired (or maybe not exactly) within us that inables us to survive and reproduce. We can call that something reason, but then there's the question of whether or not it is exactly what we think it is. Is it a force for good? I don't think it is just because it helps us survive and reproduce.

I call it instincts

[Kidlicious]

If you don't believe in the use of reason in regards to this subjective question, and have no proof except for other's beliefs, what is your faith based on?

No, I have no proof period. It has nothing to do with other people's beliefs.

If you're seeing something please enlighten us.

You have to decide to stop looking for the truth only where the light is good.

[giblets]

If life existed, then it would be much much much much more probable than only one planet in the entire history of the universe developing life.

JM

How do you assign a probability to a set of possible universes?

edit: how do you determine the chances that if a deity existed, it would only create life on one planet? If you don't know that, how do you know that one planet with intelligently created life is more likely than only one planet having life that formed naturally?

[Docfeelgood]

Your fighting a battle you cannot win.
I quote
"cast not pearls before swine"
Don't know what that means...but I have been trying to convert these heathings for a long time and got nowhere.
Just except the fact that there is no proof of GOD.
Don't try to prove GOD, just live for GOD.

[giblets]

So JM seems to be saying
(probability that a deity exists) * (probability that if a deity creates life, it only does it on one planet) > (probability of life forming naturally on only one planet)

But all he's said is that the thing on right side must be much lower than the probability of a deity existing.

[Lorizael]

JM: I'm willing to concede that the probability of life existing elsewhere in the universe might as well be 1. I don't have a good enough grasp on the numbers involved to say otherwise, but it's always been my impression that our lack of data on the occurrence of "habitable" planets made it difficult to assign a probability. Is your argument that, even given a generous range in the variability of habitable planets, the probability of there being life elsewhere in the universe is still .9999999 with enough 9s that it's 1?

[giblets]

I'm not claiming that life only exists on Earth. I just don't understand the notion that if we somehow discovered that life only exists on Earth, that would somehow demonstrate that most likely a deity created life.

[rah]

No, I have no proof period. It has nothing to do with other people's beliefs.

Thank you, your faith is blind.

[Kidlicious]

I call it instincts

If reason is instinct then we do not have free will, but I believe we do. I don't agree that it's hardwired because it's possible to think differently than we are naturally inclined to.

[Kidlicious]

Yet you are constantly dissing other peoples' opinions

Because I'm showing that people are unreasonable. Don't take it personal.

I'm sure you're an expert.



And? You're saying this as if it mattered.

Indeed, it's reasonable to believe that we have free will on the basis that possibly all of us actually do believe that we do.

[Jon Miller]

So JM seems to be saying
(probability that a deity exists) * (probability that if a deity creates life, it only does it on one planet) > (probability of life forming naturally on only one planet)

But all he's said is that the thing on right side must be much lower than the probability of a deity existing.

No, we don't need to talk about (probability that if a deity creates life, it only does it on one planet). For one, a deity (in many belief systems) creates the universe just for humans. Additionally, this isn't something that is likely to be probabilistic.

By the way, the fact that you were considering it probabilistic is baffling to me. The only way I can imagine it being probabilistic is if it is a gambler god or a god that just does 'things' randomly.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Thank you, your faith is blind.

Your statement doesn't make sense.

Most/All people don't have proof. That doesn't mean that their Faith is blind. There is a lot of evidence that isn't proof but still supports. This is true in all sorts of things, not just religious Faith.

JM